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	<title>Comments on: Eamon Gilmore &#8211; Fifty seats well within his grasp?</title>
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	<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2010/07/eamon-gilmore-fifty-seats-well-within-his-grasp/</link>
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		<title>By: Veronica</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2010/07/eamon-gilmore-fifty-seats-well-within-his-grasp/comment-page-1/#comment-126430</link>
		<dc:creator>Veronica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 05:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>WByS,

You&#039;re right, of course! 30 seats it was. Mea culpa. Gilmore has upped it to 48 now, though, as the surge in the polls has strengthened. I think there could be  an interesting discussion around which of his predictions, 30 or 48, will turn out to be closest to the mark, and why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WByS,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right, of course! 30 seats it was. Mea culpa. Gilmore has upped it to 48 now, though, as the surge in the polls has strengthened. I think there could be  an interesting discussion around which of his predictions, 30 or 48, will turn out to be closest to the mark, and why.</p>
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		<title>By: WorldbyStorm</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2010/07/eamon-gilmore-fifty-seats-well-within-his-grasp/comment-page-1/#comment-126427</link>
		<dc:creator>WorldbyStorm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Erm, not to be a tiresome pedant, but I seem to recall that Gilmore promised/offered/opined in late 2007 that Labour could get 30 seats, not 48.

http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2007/08/31/setting-out-the-electoral-stall-eamon-gilmore-and-30-labour-seats/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erm, not to be a tiresome pedant, but I seem to recall that Gilmore promised/offered/opined in late 2007 that Labour could get 30 seats, not 48.</p>
<p><a href="http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2007/08/31/setting-out-the-electoral-stall-eamon-gilmore-and-30-labour-seats/" rel="nofollow">http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2007/08/31/setting-out-the-electoral-stall-eamon-gilmore-and-30-labour-seats/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Veronica</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2010/07/eamon-gilmore-fifty-seats-well-within-his-grasp/comment-page-1/#comment-126418</link>
		<dc:creator>Veronica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dan,

Yes. The bigger the party, the bigger the seat bounce, so FF and FG tend to reap more benefit from this phenomenon of PR STV than Labour.  The personal vote phenomenon also tends to be stronger in Labour (and other small parties) because of the &#039;single candidate&#039; per constituency strategy. Not only do the voters come to identify the party locally with a particular personality, party loyalists and activists do as well. So when a long standing TD retires, much of the local organisation may disappear with him/her and a &#039;new&#039; candidate coming in has to start building  from scratch. 

That is the reason why Labour has traditionally found it very difficult to retain seats, especially in rural constituencies, when its local stalwart retires. The single candidate strategy also prevents competition emerging from potential rivals within the constituency organisation. Less secure about their hold on their seats than big names in FG  or FF, well established Labour representatives exercise a grip over their constituency organisations that would put the average feudal baron to shame. Of course it happens in the bigger parties too, but not quite to the same extent as in Labour. Also, when there&#039;s a fair wind blowing for Labour nationally it tends to do very well in Dublin. Conversely, when the national profile is negative, as in 1997, their main seat losses are in urban areas.

On the basis of current opinion poll trends, Labour looks set to have a very good day out at the next election, particularly in Dublin where it could, on these figures, win two seats in ten of the twelve Dublin constituencies. Local organisation weaknesses and &#039;quota squatting&#039; by incumbents may combine to prevent this; but the party that stands to lose most from a surge to Labour in Dublin is FG, which would make no seat gains in the capital as a result of it. If the autumn polls continue to favour a Labour surge, I think the question of the Fine Gael leadership will come onto the political radar screen again although it is probably too late for FG to resolve this issue now without inflicting further &#039;divided party&#039; image damage on itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,</p>
<p>Yes. The bigger the party, the bigger the seat bounce, so FF and FG tend to reap more benefit from this phenomenon of PR STV than Labour.  The personal vote phenomenon also tends to be stronger in Labour (and other small parties) because of the &#8216;single candidate&#8217; per constituency strategy. Not only do the voters come to identify the party locally with a particular personality, party loyalists and activists do as well. So when a long standing TD retires, much of the local organisation may disappear with him/her and a &#8216;new&#8217; candidate coming in has to start building  from scratch. </p>
<p>That is the reason why Labour has traditionally found it very difficult to retain seats, especially in rural constituencies, when its local stalwart retires. The single candidate strategy also prevents competition emerging from potential rivals within the constituency organisation. Less secure about their hold on their seats than big names in FG  or FF, well established Labour representatives exercise a grip over their constituency organisations that would put the average feudal baron to shame. Of course it happens in the bigger parties too, but not quite to the same extent as in Labour. Also, when there&#8217;s a fair wind blowing for Labour nationally it tends to do very well in Dublin. Conversely, when the national profile is negative, as in 1997, their main seat losses are in urban areas.</p>
<p>On the basis of current opinion poll trends, Labour looks set to have a very good day out at the next election, particularly in Dublin where it could, on these figures, win two seats in ten of the twelve Dublin constituencies. Local organisation weaknesses and &#8216;quota squatting&#8217; by incumbents may combine to prevent this; but the party that stands to lose most from a surge to Labour in Dublin is FG, which would make no seat gains in the capital as a result of it. If the autumn polls continue to favour a Labour surge, I think the question of the Fine Gael leadership will come onto the political radar screen again although it is probably too late for FG to resolve this issue now without inflicting further &#8216;divided party&#8217; image damage on itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2010/07/eamon-gilmore-fifty-seats-well-within-his-grasp/comment-page-1/#comment-126414</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>FT, you&#039;d have to have a much higher % of foreigners in particular constituencies than is the case for it to skew the number of seats allocated to urban areas and you&#039;re incorrect to suggest this has lead to a direct benefit for Labour. FG, FF and Labour get a seat bonus because of how PR-STV works for bigger parties and it is not as you suggest exclusive to Labour. And you&#039;re ignoring the tendency for rural based Labour votes which are mostly personally based even if they don&#039;t always lead to seats in places like Westmeath for Penrose, Cork East for Sherlock, Kerry North for the Springs, Tipp South, Wexford, Stagg in Kildare etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FT, you&#8217;d have to have a much higher % of foreigners in particular constituencies than is the case for it to skew the number of seats allocated to urban areas and you&#8217;re incorrect to suggest this has lead to a direct benefit for Labour. FG, FF and Labour get a seat bonus because of how PR-STV works for bigger parties and it is not as you suggest exclusive to Labour. And you&#8217;re ignoring the tendency for rural based Labour votes which are mostly personally based even if they don&#8217;t always lead to seats in places like Westmeath for Penrose, Cork East for Sherlock, Kerry North for the Springs, Tipp South, Wexford, Stagg in Kildare etc.</p>
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		<title>By: FutureTaoiseach</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2010/07/eamon-gilmore-fifty-seats-well-within-his-grasp/comment-page-1/#comment-126401</link>
		<dc:creator>FutureTaoiseach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:01:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Veronica you misunderstand my point in bringing foreign-nationals into this discussion. Namely - that although most cannot vote in General Elections, the Constitution still makes them relevant as a factor in determining the number of seats in a given region by imposing a ratio of population-to-seat. This benefits Labour because their heartlands are urban and immigrants disproportionately live there. Hope I have suitably clarified my point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Veronica you misunderstand my point in bringing foreign-nationals into this discussion. Namely &#8211; that although most cannot vote in General Elections, the Constitution still makes them relevant as a factor in determining the number of seats in a given region by imposing a ratio of population-to-seat. This benefits Labour because their heartlands are urban and immigrants disproportionately live there. Hope I have suitably clarified my point.</p>
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		<title>By: EddieL</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2010/07/eamon-gilmore-fifty-seats-well-within-his-grasp/comment-page-1/#comment-126399</link>
		<dc:creator>EddieL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 07:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Veronica: Sorry for doubting you.
I agree with FT that we should not read too much into opiion polls. It is no good just putting yourself forward for election any more no matter how godd or essential your policies are. When the crunch comes FF and FG hold all the cards including the media, the spin doctors, the finance to be able discover what will go down with the majority etc.
That has been the case now for a long time and I can only it changing very slowly. But there is always hope. Maybe Labour should join FF and change it from within.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Veronica: Sorry for doubting you.<br />
I agree with FT that we should not read too much into opiion polls. It is no good just putting yourself forward for election any more no matter how godd or essential your policies are. When the crunch comes FF and FG hold all the cards including the media, the spin doctors, the finance to be able discover what will go down with the majority etc.<br />
That has been the case now for a long time and I can only it changing very slowly. But there is always hope. Maybe Labour should join FF and change it from within.</p>
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		<title>By: Veronica</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2010/07/eamon-gilmore-fifty-seats-well-within-his-grasp/comment-page-1/#comment-126398</link>
		<dc:creator>Veronica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 05:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>FT,

Unless you are a resident Irish or UK citizen, there is no right to vote in Irish general elections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FT,</p>
<p>Unless you are a resident Irish or UK citizen, there is no right to vote in Irish general elections.</p>
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		<title>By: Future Taoiseach</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2010/07/eamon-gilmore-fifty-seats-well-within-his-grasp/comment-page-1/#comment-126397</link>
		<dc:creator>Future Taoiseach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 03:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Correction: Labour&#039;s 12 seats were approximately 8% of Dail Eireann in 1987 and the 25% of seats in 2009 refers to the Euro elections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction: Labour&#8217;s 12 seats were approximately 8% of Dail Eireann in 1987 and the 25% of seats in 2009 refers to the Euro elections.</p>
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		<title>By: Future Taoiseach</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2010/07/eamon-gilmore-fifty-seats-well-within-his-grasp/comment-page-1/#comment-126396</link>
		<dc:creator>Future Taoiseach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 03:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>One thing Labour has going for it is the constitutional-requirement with respect to the ratio of population-to-number-of-TDs. Immigrants are disproportionately urban as are Labour&#039;s traditional strongholds. Hence Labour has historically been over-represented in Dail Eireann since the Celtic Tiger began. Examples: 12% of the seats compared to 10% of the vote in 2002 and 2007. Imho, the massive influx of people from the Accession States since 2004 will further the disparity between the party&#039;s share of the vote and share of the seats. Another example can be seen in the Euro elections last year where the party won just 13.5-14% in the Euro and Local Elections, respectively but won 25% of the seats. In 1987, the party won 5% of the first-preference vote but 12 seats (over 13% of the seats in Dail Eireann). To some extent, this tendency will counterbalance Labour&#039;s weak organisation in rural-Ireland.

Even so, the 2004 and 2007 elections are a cautionary tale in reading too much into local/euro election results. Fianna Fáil were also &#039;certain&#039; to lose power until the last week in the 2007 GE campaign. At the end of the day, the granny-vote will return to the party to some extent and even though I regard a return to government in 2012 as unlikely, past form suggests it cannot be ruled out - particularly given the huge chasm between Fine Gael and Labour on public-sector reform (which Labour appear to have no policy on other than condemning cuts while avoiding a position before the ICTU endorsement of the Croke Park Agreement), the role of private-medicine in the health-care system (e.g. privatisation of VHI), criminal-justice legislation such as increased surveillance powers for the Gardai, corporate-donations etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing Labour has going for it is the constitutional-requirement with respect to the ratio of population-to-number-of-TDs. Immigrants are disproportionately urban as are Labour&#8217;s traditional strongholds. Hence Labour has historically been over-represented in Dail Eireann since the Celtic Tiger began. Examples: 12% of the seats compared to 10% of the vote in 2002 and 2007. Imho, the massive influx of people from the Accession States since 2004 will further the disparity between the party&#8217;s share of the vote and share of the seats. Another example can be seen in the Euro elections last year where the party won just 13.5-14% in the Euro and Local Elections, respectively but won 25% of the seats. In 1987, the party won 5% of the first-preference vote but 12 seats (over 13% of the seats in Dail Eireann). To some extent, this tendency will counterbalance Labour&#8217;s weak organisation in rural-Ireland.</p>
<p>Even so, the 2004 and 2007 elections are a cautionary tale in reading too much into local/euro election results. Fianna Fáil were also &#8216;certain&#8217; to lose power until the last week in the 2007 GE campaign. At the end of the day, the granny-vote will return to the party to some extent and even though I regard a return to government in 2012 as unlikely, past form suggests it cannot be ruled out &#8211; particularly given the huge chasm between Fine Gael and Labour on public-sector reform (which Labour appear to have no policy on other than condemning cuts while avoiding a position before the ICTU endorsement of the Croke Park Agreement), the role of private-medicine in the health-care system (e.g. privatisation of VHI), criminal-justice legislation such as increased surveillance powers for the Gardai, corporate-donations etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Veronica</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2010/07/eamon-gilmore-fifty-seats-well-within-his-grasp/comment-page-1/#comment-126395</link>
		<dc:creator>Veronica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jul 2010 23:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Eddie,

For some unknown reason your earlier comment was automatically consigned to &#039;pending&#039; status. I can&#039;t see why - maybe use of a particular word or something! I&#039;ve unblocked it now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eddie,</p>
<p>For some unknown reason your earlier comment was automatically consigned to &#8216;pending&#8217; status. I can&#8217;t see why &#8211; maybe use of a particular word or something! I&#8217;ve unblocked it now.</p>
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