Paul Gogarty: “Fuck you Deputy Stagg”

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Its needing no introduction.

Update Simon: Now on Youtube

Ringtone now available thanks to @BrianGreene

Update Simon: Dail Transcript below.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: I suppose if I am sitting here, I am a target. My name has been mentioned by a number of speakers. Yes, it is hard for me, and I would hope for any other God-respecting humanist republican – you name it – to support measures that hurt the vulnerable. Of course, it is hard for me. It is hard for me to gratuitously insult many of my constituents who are public sector employees and tell them: “Listen, lads. It is necessary. I feel your pain but it is necessary”. To them, it comes across as baloney, insincerity, political rant. We have had much of that in past the couple of days in this Chamber although I must acknowledge we have had much sincerity also.

I will take at face value the sincerity with which the Deputies on the opposite side of the House have expressed themselves although I know also that perhaps some of their colleagues were more interested in point-scoring and political opportunism than sincerity. If I was on the Opposition benches, not having access to the figures, not being involved in the negotiations for the programme for Government and not having been kept in the loop this year, which we certainly were not last year with the rushed budget, I would be clamouring for blood and pointing out the unfairness of this budget. It would be highly disingenuous of me and totally insincere, therefore, to say anything other than that this is a grossly unfair section and that the Bill is grossly unfair.

I have received God knows how many texts, including today, from constituents in both the public sector and those in receipt of social welfare. They say it is a shame and a disgrace, and ask “How can you hurt vulnerable people?” Unfortunately, this is what this debate is about. The Labour Party says there is a radical alternative. Those on the Government benches say there is no alternative. I believe there was an alternative in our society and there may still be an alternative. However, as far as this budget goes, there is not much room for manoeuvre. That is the problem. I stated on the record last night that approximately €3.2 billion is being paid in interest on our loans this year. If nothing is done by 2013 it will go up to €11 billion, a quarter of our tax take.

The Green Party argued for a number of things. Personally, even though I be shot by some sectors for saying so, I believe certain people over the age of 65, if social welfare is being cut, could also take a 1% or 2% cut, instead of the blind, the carers and other sectors. That did not happen, a judgment call was made. Some might say it was a cynical decision by Fianna Fáil to protect its electorate. Others might say that the pensioners were hurt last year, as the protest showed, and we should not hurt them this year. A cynic might say again that the pensioners can come out and protest whereas the more vulnerable cannot.

I am trying to look at this objectively. There are reasons for protecting our senior citizens. People got on to me before the budget saying they did not care about the pain but they did not want their mother or father to suffer a cut in their pension. There were reasons for that but the knock-on effect of not cutting pensions means the other areas of the welfare budget had to be cut instead.

We in the Green Party argued for a reduction in the overall level of cuts. I will not go into detail, I will leave that to someone else, but we succeeded in getting it reduced somewhat from what it might have been to the 4.1% it is now. That was a trade off from various sectors.

The trouble is, no matter where there is a trade-off, someone will get hurt. If a relatively low income earner in the public sector is being levied with a 5% pay cut, if social welfare is not touched when that pay cut is brought in, all of a sudden that person would probably be better off leaving his job, even with the pension security. If he has just started in the public sector and is on a low income, the pension is a long way off and he might say that this is a chance to get out if the offer comes for reductions in staff numbers.

If pay is reduced in the public sector, social welfare must also be reduced and it has been reduced by less than the lowest earners in the public sector. It hurts those on social welfare, and it certainly hurts those within the public sector, but if money is not taken out of the public sector, social welfare is increased and vice versa.

We have had a debate about the rich needing to pay more, and I agree with that. We argued in this budget and the Green Party is disappointed that a third rate of tax was not brought in this year, although we understand there is a commitment it may be brought in next year. We are disappointed the PRSI levy was not introduced this year, because we argued vehemently for that as well. We argued vehemently for many things, such as the introduction of a carbon tax and the protection of education and we got some of those things but we did not get everything. Taken as a package, however, we could not ignore the reality that we must make €4 billion plus in savings or else the interest rates we pay on our overdraft will go up.

I agree with the Minister for Finance on one point. He was overly conservative on the application of additional taxes. There is a strong case that if taxes are increased and revenue goes down and the €4 billion magic figure is not achieved, it is totally pointless. I agree, but he was a little conservative in terms of getting rid of the loopholes and areas where people make savings on their tax liabilities. More needs to be done and it needs to be done quickly. I acknowledge the levies that came into force in April affected the higher earners far more while those on social welfare were affected less.

Having said all that, I genuinely acknowledge the call to solidarity by Members on the Opposition benches and I take it as a sincere call. Like everyone in this Chamber, I am proud to call myself a republican. Far too often, however, republicanism in Ireland has been paddywhackery. I do not want to go off on a tangent but I remember sitting in a pub once and when everyone was pissed out of their brains, and the rebel band was playing the national anthem at the end of the night, as a naive 16 year old, I sat down because I thought this was an insult to our national anthem. Someone whacked me in the back of the head and asked if I was not proud to be Irish. I said I was proud to be Irish which is why I sat down.

It is like that now. I am damn proud to be Irish. I am not proud of what has happened, I am not proud of the fact the banks had to be bailed out, of the corruption and worship of mammon in this country that has brought us to this sorry state, I am not proud of that, colleagues,—–

Deputy Róisín Shortall: Deputy Gogarty should do the right thing then.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: —–but I am proud to be Irish. In my conscience I must look at the bigger picture rather than the small, individual pictures.

Deputy Joe Costello: This is the big picture.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: It is.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: Because of that, and in all sincerity, believing what I believe to be right, I am supporting the legislation.

Deputy Joe Costello: Supporting the cuts.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: Does Deputy Gogarty believe the legislation is right?

Deputy Paul Gogarty: I do not believe it is right to take anything from anyone vulnerable.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: The Deputy just said that.

Deputy Emmet Stagg: Always blathering.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: It is, however, necessary.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: Providing the Government and Fianna Fáil with justification.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: It is necessary because of the wrongdoing of others, wrongdoing I bear no responsibility for.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: What about the big players? What about the wealthy paying their share? Does Deputy Gogarty not think they should pay their share?

Acting Chairman (Deputy Michael Kennedy): I ask Deputy Shortall to please desist.

Deputy Emmet Stagg: Bleating and blather.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: I respected the Deputy’s sincerity and I ask him to respect mine.

Deputy Emmet Stagg: The Deputy does not seem very sincere from what he has been saying.

Acting Chairman: Deputy Stagg will have his opportunity in a few minutes.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: With all due respect, in the most unparliamentary language, fuck you Deputy Stagg. Fuck you.

Acting Chairman: Hey. Excuse me, Deputy Gogarty, that is most unparliamentary language.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: Excuse me?

Deputy Paul Gogarty: I apologise now for my use of unparliamentary language.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: How dare he.

Acting Chairman: Could the Deputy please withdraw that?

Deputy Paul Gogarty: It is most unparliamentary language and I now withdraw it and apologise for it but I am outraged that someone dares question my sincerity on this issue.

I do not like what has to be done, but I will take responsibility, take it on the chin, get the unpopularity and lose my seat because it is the only thing we can do to get this country out of the state we are in.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: No it is not, it is not the only thing we can do. What rubbish. Deputy Gogarty has bought into the Fianna Fáil line on this.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: I firmly believe that. Deputy Shortall should respect my view. I did not cause the economic mess, I did not take money from developers.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: Excuse me, neither did the Labour Party. How dare the Deputy accuse us of that. How dare he.

Acting Chairman: Please, Deputy Shortall.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: That is the point.

Deputy Joe Costello: Do the right thing then.

Acting Chairman: Deputy Costello, please desist.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: The point is we are screwed as a country because of the wrongdoing of others.

Deputy Joe Costello: This the opportunity.

Acting Chairman: Deputy Shortall and Deputy Costello, please.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: That does not mean we shirk our responsibility to do the right thing now.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: The Government should not compound the problem by hitting the poor.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: I do not like this unfair budget but it was made unfair because of bankers, developers and corrupt politicians.

Deputy Joe Costello: That is right, the people over there.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: The remedy must still be applied.

Deputy Shane McEntee: It is not necessary to go to bed with them though.

Acting Chairman: Please let Deputy Gogarty finish.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: I wish it was any other way.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: The Deputy has lost all of his critical faculties.

Acting Chairman: Please Deputy Shortall.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: No, I still have my conscience.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: He has completely bought into the Fianna Fáil line.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: I am sorry—–

Deputy Róisín Shortall: He has and he should be ashamed, listening to himself.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: It is not a case of buying into the Fianna Fáil line, it is a case of looking at the €24 billion we have borrowed.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: Deputy Gogarty has bought Fianna Fáil’s spin completely.

Deputy Joe Costello: Look at the poor people the cuts will hurt.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: Those are the facts, the financial reality. We will not be able to pay social welfare next year, we will not be able to pay the public service workers next year.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: It is not the financial reality. Why did the Government parties not get the millionaires to make a contribution?

Deputy Paul Gogarty: As a TD, when my political career ends, I will be in a better position than others.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: Why does the Green Party not end all the tax breaks for the rich? Be honest.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: I want to leave something for future generations.

Acting Chairman: Would Deputy Gogarty please address his remarks to the Chair? Deputy Costello and Deputy Shortall have had their opportunity. Deputy Stagg will get to speak next.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: There are people playing the patriotic card, asking people to examine their conscience. I answer back in all sincerity that I have examined my conscience and I still think it is necessary. There is a basic lack of respect for those who may hold an opposing view. It is an important issue, it not one for playing politics with.

Deputy Joe Costello: Precisely

Deputy Róisín Shortall: The Deputy is just a bleeding heart.

Deputy Joe Costello: The Deputy should do the right thing then.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: I am doing the right thing.

Acting Chairman: Will Deputy Gogarty please address his remarks to the Chair? I appeal to Labour Deputies to desist; they have had their opportunities. Deputy Stagg’s opportunity is coming up.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: I have apologised for my outburst.

Deputy Emmet Stagg: I am afraid to open my mouth.

Deputy Joe Costello: He is voting with his conscience.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: The only person who has ever done that before was Deputy Ó Snodaigh. I am sorry he gave me a bad example. I apologise profusely.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: It is not really funny, it was entirely disrespectful.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: It is absolutely disrespectful but it was genuine. I would not say it except my outrage was genuine.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: The Deputy should apologise. He is expected to exercise self control.

Deputy Joe Costello: The outrage is on this side.

Acting Chairman: Has Deputy Gogarty finished?

Deputy Paul Gogarty: May I continue?

Acting Chairman: Yes, please.

4 o’clock

Deputy Paul Gogarty: All right. We have seen what has caused the problem and I have mentioned it is largely the responsibility of the previous Administration, the over-heated economy, the tax breaks for developers and bankers and for councillors who have taken legitimate donations—–

Deputy Róisín Shortall: The Government is continuing with that. The breaks are continuing. Why have the Greens not stopped it?

Deputy Paul Gogarty: —–on all sides of this House.

Acting Chairman: Please, Deputy Shortall.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: There are many who are guilty and we can go into the blame game but the question is—–

Deputy Róisín Shortall: Why did the Greens not end the breaks?

Deputy Paul Gogarty: —–what happens tonight when the buttons are pressed and people walk through the lobbies—–

Deputy Joe Costello: The Deputy should take a stand.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: —–they have to make a decision. As Deputy McEntee has said, they should look at the statues of our forebears and ask—–

Deputy Róisín Shortall: Then they do the right thing or the wrong thing.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: —–what is the right thing for this country.

Deputy Joe Costello: Exactly.

Deputy Shane McEntee: That is to look after the vulnerable—–

Deputy Joe Costello: And for the people of this country—–

Deputy Shane McEntee: —– as in the Proclamation.

Acting Chairman: Deputy McEntee, please.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: The right thing for this country is make sure we have enough money to pay the social welfare and enough money to pay the public sector and to create the jobs. Unfortunately, I believe there is no other option from an economic point of view, even though I fundamentally disagree with the unfairness—–

Deputy Róisín Shortall: Continue the tax breaks. Do they care?

Deputy Paul Gogarty: —–of it all but it is necessary. I am going to walk through the lobby and do the right thing and dare anyone say I am somehow less of a patriot than anyone else.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: He is giving us this bleeding heart.

And saying sorry.

An Ceann Comhairle: I call on Deputy Gogarty to make a short statement to the House.

Deputy Paul Gogarty: I wish to apologise to the House and to the Acting Chairman who was presiding earlier. Under the salient rulings of the Chair, No. 428, the terminology I used was not included in the list. However, No. 431 rules that political charges are in order but personal charges will not be made, Members must not be thin-skinned in relation to political remarks. I was thin-skinned and I should not have used unparliamentary language and I apologise profusely to the House.

Deputy Charles Flanagan: The Deputy is a disgrace.

Deputy Alan Shatter: Remind us, what did the Deputy say?

Deputy Bernard Durkan: The Deputy should apologise to those who will be punished by this Bill

Deputy Olivia Mitchell: Is that what one would call a mental reservation?

Deputy Lucinda Creighton: I wish to place on the record my objection to that half-hearted mealy-mouthed apology to this Chamber. It represents the greatest display in arrogance and contempt for colleagues in the national Parliament. I call on you, a Cheann Comhairle, to suspend that Member from the House.

An Ceann Comhairle: These matters are considered by another body.