Comments on: Lisbon Referendum Wording

By: Stephen Spillane - The Lisbon Debate gets going - A bit of a round-up

Stephen Spillane - The Lisbon Debate gets going - A bit of a round-up — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:47:27 +0000

[...] Lisbon Referendum Wording (irishelection.com) [...]

By: EU: Ireland to hold fresh EU treaty referendum on Oct 2 « Tea and Politics

EU: Ireland to hold fresh EU treaty referendum on Oct 2 « Tea and Politics — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:54:57 +0000

[...] Election has the amendments done to the Lisbon Treaty to present it to this referendum. The main point is 6: No provision of [...]

By: lighthouse

lighthouse — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:20:41 +0000

An Irish Bedtime Story for all Nice Children and not so Maastricht Adults

http://ceolas.net/#eu7x

The Happy Family
Once upon a time there was a family treaty-ing themselves to a visit in Lisbon.
On the sunny day that it was they decided to go out together.
Everyone had to agree on what they would do.
“So”, said Daddy Brusselsprout “Let’s all go for a picnic!”
“No”, said Aunt Erin, “I don’t want to”.
Did they then think of something else, that they might indeed agree on?
Oh yes they did?
Oh no they didn’t!
Daddy Brusselsprout asked all the others anyway, isolating Erin, and then asked her if instead, she would like to go with them to
the park and eat out of a lunch basket….

Kids, we’ll finish this story tomorrow, and remember, in the EU yes means yes and no means yes as well!

By: Betty

Betty — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:45:29 +0000

I greatly fear that if Cowan doesn’t change his attitude Lisbon 2 will get another NO. He wouldn’t give any info re the lisbon referendum in the dail last week to the opposition though all these arrangements were in place and then re-appoints Martin to “head up the campaign”–he probably feels it will be a yes result out of fear and doesn’t want anyone else in on the action.It should be an all party campaign.If the people have to grit their teeth and vote yes they will get their revenge some other way.

By: John Costello

John Costello — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:32:04 +0000

The proposed amendment removes whatever Constitutional defence we have to a vast range of decisions made in Europe (section 6). Goodbye to independence.

By: AM in Brussels

AM in Brussels — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 11:39:11 +0000

Damien: nobody anywhere has said that this treaty is different to the one that was voted on last June. It has to be the same, only now we hae guarantees on various bits and bobs.

As for the readability of it. It’s a mess. But that’s how treaties are, especially when they refer back to other treaties, amending bits, adding bits, removing bits, etc.

I really regret that the idea of a constitution was dropped, because this was short and readable, and everything contained in one document.

By: Damian Hockney

Damian Hockney — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:19:38 +0000

Point taken P O’Neill, but it’s useful to remember that the whole process of the EU Constitution/treaty has been accompanied by confused (or unavailable) wordings, vital documents casually admitted by politicians never to have been read, wordings tacked onto other wordings making them almost meaningless (or at least very difficult to make sense of) and attempts to avoid debate about substance. This is really just more of the same, hiding the fact that the Treaty as put to the electorate last year is the same one.

By: Stephen Spillane - Does this need to be in the Irish Constitution?

Stephen Spillane - Does this need to be in the Irish Constitution? — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:59:18 +0000

[...] earlier today, the Twenty Eight Amendent to the Constitution Bill 2009 was published today. IrishElection has the full text of the amendment but I have a query to the proposed new Article 29.4.4 of [...]

By: P O'Neill

P O'Neill — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:45:26 +0000

Obviously they have written what they legally felt needed to be written, but I think this wording brings out the difficulties of the constitution-based approach to ratification. Note that with this amendment, the constitution loses any readability to the average person. One vision for a constitution would be that it is a short overarching document that provides a statements of rights and governing framework that any reasonable person could follow. These paragraphs fail that test. No one will have a clue what they mean. That level of detail belongs in legislation, not a constitution. It shows a lack of faith in the Oireachtas (perhaps deserved) that the amendment can’t simply be worded to permit ratification subject to the passage of accompanying legislation by the Oireachtas which does not conflict with any existing article in the constitution.