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	<title>Comments on: The pension levy is regressive</title>
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		<title>By: EddieL</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2009/02/the-pension-levy-is-regressive/comment-page-1/#comment-115171</link>
		<dc:creator>EddieL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/?p=4380#comment-115171</guid>
		<description>A summary of what I believe to be the facts:
1.The government knows what it is doing. It has specific sums for cuts and bank bailouts (we may not be told everything).
2.It is pursuing an IBEC agenda - lower wages and greater insecurity for employees, high private debt to tie people to the system.
3. It has made no attempt to reduce employers fees, charges, subscriptions etc.
4. It has set its face against raising tax rates.
5. It pretends that this recession is going to end in a short but unspecified time even though it knows that the era of full employment is a myth because there is no need even for much of the employment we already have e.g. the bloated financial services sector.  
6. It provides unconditional support, financially and otherwise, for certain influential sectors of the community except where they are forced to change their mind.
7.It is making no effort to provide jobs for our own people on the dole and instead seems to welcome immigrants where they help to force down labour costs (every shop I go into).
9. It knows that we live in a protectionist world yet it does nothing to stop the tide of replacement of Irish products (even food) with foreign products (note all the &quot;but now, pay later&quot; offers for imported goods).
I am sure there&#039;s more......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A summary of what I believe to be the facts:<br />
1.The government knows what it is doing. It has specific sums for cuts and bank bailouts (we may not be told everything).<br />
2.It is pursuing an IBEC agenda &#8211; lower wages and greater insecurity for employees, high private debt to tie people to the system.<br />
3. It has made no attempt to reduce employers fees, charges, subscriptions etc.<br />
4. It has set its face against raising tax rates.<br />
5. It pretends that this recession is going to end in a short but unspecified time even though it knows that the era of full employment is a myth because there is no need even for much of the employment we already have e.g. the bloated financial services sector.<br />
6. It provides unconditional support, financially and otherwise, for certain influential sectors of the community except where they are forced to change their mind.<br />
7.It is making no effort to provide jobs for our own people on the dole and instead seems to welcome immigrants where they help to force down labour costs (every shop I go into).<br />
9. It knows that we live in a protectionist world yet it does nothing to stop the tide of replacement of Irish products (even food) with foreign products (note all the &#8220;but now, pay later&#8221; offers for imported goods).<br />
I am sure there&#8217;s more&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Colin</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2009/02/the-pension-levy-is-regressive/comment-page-1/#comment-115117</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/?p=4380#comment-115117</guid>
		<description>Tomeltach, please can you explain how mortgage rates have fallen by 20% in the last year. While that may be true for some mortgage holders, those of us on fixed rates are now paying at 2% over the current svr of their respective lenders. This would not normally be a problem as you would remortgage at the lower rate but because of the plummeting house prices around the country those people who bought at the height of the boom are locked into negative equity. Remortgaging is not a possibility. Some lenders (IL&amp;P) are now refusing to allow their borrowers to transfer from the fixed rate to the svr even with the payment of a penalty. Good business sense for a bank that needs to maximise its revenue atm but disastrous for those borrowers who are taking redundancy or paycuts, be they public or private sector. Personally, I am breathing a sigh of relief this week because my wife has just been signed off from the physiotherapist. The €160 monthly cost will now go towards the weekly foodshop, once Cowan&#039;s Levy kicks in in 3 days time. Otherwise I was looking at having to hand back the keys to the car- there is nothing else there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tomeltach, please can you explain how mortgage rates have fallen by 20% in the last year. While that may be true for some mortgage holders, those of us on fixed rates are now paying at 2% over the current svr of their respective lenders. This would not normally be a problem as you would remortgage at the lower rate but because of the plummeting house prices around the country those people who bought at the height of the boom are locked into negative equity. Remortgaging is not a possibility. Some lenders (IL&amp;P) are now refusing to allow their borrowers to transfer from the fixed rate to the svr even with the payment of a penalty. Good business sense for a bank that needs to maximise its revenue atm but disastrous for those borrowers who are taking redundancy or paycuts, be they public or private sector. Personally, I am breathing a sigh of relief this week because my wife has just been signed off from the physiotherapist. The €160 monthly cost will now go towards the weekly foodshop, once Cowan&#8217;s Levy kicks in in 3 days time. Otherwise I was looking at having to hand back the keys to the car- there is nothing else there.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2009/02/the-pension-levy-is-regressive/comment-page-1/#comment-114571</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/?p=4380#comment-114571</guid>
		<description>Anne, &quot;Oh, I am not entitled to any social welfare payments because I am a civil servant. I guess people in the Private Sector do not know what I am entitled to at least you can get the dole.&quot; How are you not entitled to any social welfare payments at all? If you lost your job in the morning are you telling us that you wouldn&#039;t not ever get any social welfare payments?

The problem here is much like the situation that used to pertain in the north, the rich landed and business class worked tro ensure that the loyalist community who were working class was constantly in fear of the working class Catholics.

Social solidarity should mean that your No.1 priority is to ensure that no one loses their job that is really standing together, instead the public sector unions set out their stall that their priority was that terms and conditions should be unaffected. They preferred that there would be cuts in staff and services over pay cuts. Those staff would be those on contract that is the choice the unions preferred so why do they think they can talk about solidarity? Why are public sector worker not making any references to those who are very well paid in the public sector outside of the Taoiseach and ministers? Is it because they hope to attain those positions some day and they prefer that they be as well paid as possible? The language has to change from public vs. private to the underpaid vs. the overpaid, they exist in both the public and private sectors and they have to be dealt with by separate means.

The state can&#039;t cut the salaries of the well paid in the private sector as it does not employ them, it can and should crawl more money back from them in the form of increased taxation. 

But the state can and should cut the salaries of those on high salaries in the public sector. Sarah Carey pointed out on Q&amp;A last week that we have 5,000 in the public sector earning over 150K per year, doing what exactly that needs paying so much?

I personally think that we shouldn&#039;t have anyone who outside the tax net and that does include those on minimum wage. I&#039;d have a 10% tax rate for those on up to 125% of the minimum wage. For those on the minimum wage this would mean little as the PAYE tax credit would cover it but people would be aware of paying towards the state services and some when it comes to the use of state services. 

I would go for new tax bands of 25% and 45% and even 65% for those on the top as temporary measures until the books are balanced. And I would prioritise reductions on the bottom band over the others as things improve.  

As for the constant refrain that public sector workers already pay for their pension, they don&#039;t. They pay a contributions towards their pensions but their pensions are not related to the contribution they make but are in fact guaranteed to be significantly more than what their contributions have paid for. No one on the same salary in the private sector can remotely afford to pay the contributions necessary to guarantee themselves at the level as the public sector get. It is also a rip-off that increases in pay to public servants automatically results in increases in the current pension pay out to retired public servants. That is wrong and if we were really talking about solidarity those working in the public sector would tell those retirees to take a hike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anne, &#8220;Oh, I am not entitled to any social welfare payments because I am a civil servant. I guess people in the Private Sector do not know what I am entitled to at least you can get the dole.&#8221; How are you not entitled to any social welfare payments at all? If you lost your job in the morning are you telling us that you wouldn&#8217;t not ever get any social welfare payments?</p>
<p>The problem here is much like the situation that used to pertain in the north, the rich landed and business class worked tro ensure that the loyalist community who were working class was constantly in fear of the working class Catholics.</p>
<p>Social solidarity should mean that your No.1 priority is to ensure that no one loses their job that is really standing together, instead the public sector unions set out their stall that their priority was that terms and conditions should be unaffected. They preferred that there would be cuts in staff and services over pay cuts. Those staff would be those on contract that is the choice the unions preferred so why do they think they can talk about solidarity? Why are public sector worker not making any references to those who are very well paid in the public sector outside of the Taoiseach and ministers? Is it because they hope to attain those positions some day and they prefer that they be as well paid as possible? The language has to change from public vs. private to the underpaid vs. the overpaid, they exist in both the public and private sectors and they have to be dealt with by separate means.</p>
<p>The state can&#8217;t cut the salaries of the well paid in the private sector as it does not employ them, it can and should crawl more money back from them in the form of increased taxation. </p>
<p>But the state can and should cut the salaries of those on high salaries in the public sector. Sarah Carey pointed out on Q&amp;A last week that we have 5,000 in the public sector earning over 150K per year, doing what exactly that needs paying so much?</p>
<p>I personally think that we shouldn&#8217;t have anyone who outside the tax net and that does include those on minimum wage. I&#8217;d have a 10% tax rate for those on up to 125% of the minimum wage. For those on the minimum wage this would mean little as the PAYE tax credit would cover it but people would be aware of paying towards the state services and some when it comes to the use of state services. </p>
<p>I would go for new tax bands of 25% and 45% and even 65% for those on the top as temporary measures until the books are balanced. And I would prioritise reductions on the bottom band over the others as things improve.  </p>
<p>As for the constant refrain that public sector workers already pay for their pension, they don&#8217;t. They pay a contributions towards their pensions but their pensions are not related to the contribution they make but are in fact guaranteed to be significantly more than what their contributions have paid for. No one on the same salary in the private sector can remotely afford to pay the contributions necessary to guarantee themselves at the level as the public sector get. It is also a rip-off that increases in pay to public servants automatically results in increases in the current pension pay out to retired public servants. That is wrong and if we were really talking about solidarity those working in the public sector would tell those retirees to take a hike.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2009/02/the-pension-levy-is-regressive/comment-page-1/#comment-114562</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/?p=4380#comment-114562</guid>
		<description>I despair at the thought of what will happen once this levy hits my already strained finances. As a single male trying to negotiate the cost of living in rental accommodation in Dublin and survive within the limitations of an exorbitant cost of living, I feel extremely aggrieved at further proposed cuts in my take-home pay. I can not even imagine the strain this must be placing on single-income families.

Mr. Cowen reckons that our collective standard of living will drop by 10% in the next year. I didn&#039;t think this was possible! We have, as a nation, been constantly fed the party-line of belt-tightening and &#039;civic patriotism&#039;. I, along with many of my contemporaries, can barely afford the belt in the first place! A generation of people like me are worried about the outcome of this whole mess. No amount of feigned solidarity will cover up the inequalities in our society and the underlying motivations of privilege protection driving the current reactionary tactics of our government. 

In many respects, I feel that the morality and hard-working ethos instilled in most of us by our predecessors is an inhibiting factor in our own progression. It is at times like this that I would gladly play the system for all it is worth, if I knew where to start! Transparency and accountability seem to be dirty words in the current climate and unfortunately, it will be the people who placed us in this predicament who will experience the least negative impact. If not upgrading the Range Rover this year was my only setback, I&#039;d be a far happier man!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I despair at the thought of what will happen once this levy hits my already strained finances. As a single male trying to negotiate the cost of living in rental accommodation in Dublin and survive within the limitations of an exorbitant cost of living, I feel extremely aggrieved at further proposed cuts in my take-home pay. I can not even imagine the strain this must be placing on single-income families.</p>
<p>Mr. Cowen reckons that our collective standard of living will drop by 10% in the next year. I didn&#8217;t think this was possible! We have, as a nation, been constantly fed the party-line of belt-tightening and &#8216;civic patriotism&#8217;. I, along with many of my contemporaries, can barely afford the belt in the first place! A generation of people like me are worried about the outcome of this whole mess. No amount of feigned solidarity will cover up the inequalities in our society and the underlying motivations of privilege protection driving the current reactionary tactics of our government. </p>
<p>In many respects, I feel that the morality and hard-working ethos instilled in most of us by our predecessors is an inhibiting factor in our own progression. It is at times like this that I would gladly play the system for all it is worth, if I knew where to start! Transparency and accountability seem to be dirty words in the current climate and unfortunately, it will be the people who placed us in this predicament who will experience the least negative impact. If not upgrading the Range Rover this year was my only setback, I&#8217;d be a far happier man!</p>
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		<title>By: Gill</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2009/02/the-pension-levy-is-regressive/comment-page-1/#comment-114471</link>
		<dc:creator>Gill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/?p=4380#comment-114471</guid>
		<description>As a clerical officer earning 30,000 a year with two people working in our house, we are finding it very difficult to make ends meet and we have no children. Can&#039;t afford them. We have tried to support local but we can no longer afford to even eat groceries from here. The pension levy means we will have to cut something else from the very tightened belt. We did not reap the high wages the private sector earned in the last decade and do not have the savings that some of them should have. My non-working brother and his non-working wife have just had their 4th baby in 4 years. They can afford everything and the resession means nothing to them. They get every allowance going, cheap rent, domicilary allowance - even though they dont need to put their kids in a creche, extra money at Christmas. Will the people who didnt bother to work in the last 10 years get their money cut? Not at all. One of them said to me recently and Im quoting &quot;this resession is the best thing that ever happened&quot;. Made me feel great that did. I dont think the general public realise  how little we actually earn and the expense accounts we don&#039;t have. I have 490 euro a week now before the pension levy and Im up the creek without a paddle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a clerical officer earning 30,000 a year with two people working in our house, we are finding it very difficult to make ends meet and we have no children. Can&#8217;t afford them. We have tried to support local but we can no longer afford to even eat groceries from here. The pension levy means we will have to cut something else from the very tightened belt. We did not reap the high wages the private sector earned in the last decade and do not have the savings that some of them should have. My non-working brother and his non-working wife have just had their 4th baby in 4 years. They can afford everything and the resession means nothing to them. They get every allowance going, cheap rent, domicilary allowance &#8211; even though they dont need to put their kids in a creche, extra money at Christmas. Will the people who didnt bother to work in the last 10 years get their money cut? Not at all. One of them said to me recently and Im quoting &#8220;this resession is the best thing that ever happened&#8221;. Made me feel great that did. I dont think the general public realise  how little we actually earn and the expense accounts we don&#8217;t have. I have 490 euro a week now before the pension levy and Im up the creek without a paddle.</p>
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		<title>By: EddieL</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2009/02/the-pension-levy-is-regressive/comment-page-1/#comment-114278</link>
		<dc:creator>EddieL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 20:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/?p=4380#comment-114278</guid>
		<description>The pension levy is regressive but it is probably also illegal. Pension schemes are by their nature complex because they have to take into account at least 40 years of legally binding agreements on both sides. For this reason it is a basic principle that any change to any aspect of pension obligations on both sides have to be agreed by both sides. I cannot see therefore how the government can unilaterally legally alter previously entered legally binding obligations on their part, in this case changes to the 5% contribution without any benefit accruing and without the consent of the contributer. It is like buying something in a shop and three times the agreed cost being taken from your credit card.
So if this arrangement goes ahead you can bet your bottom dollar there will be years of litigation ahead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The pension levy is regressive but it is probably also illegal. Pension schemes are by their nature complex because they have to take into account at least 40 years of legally binding agreements on both sides. For this reason it is a basic principle that any change to any aspect of pension obligations on both sides have to be agreed by both sides. I cannot see therefore how the government can unilaterally legally alter previously entered legally binding obligations on their part, in this case changes to the 5% contribution without any benefit accruing and without the consent of the contributer. It is like buying something in a shop and three times the agreed cost being taken from your credit card.<br />
So if this arrangement goes ahead you can bet your bottom dollar there will be years of litigation ahead.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomaltach</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2009/02/the-pension-levy-is-regressive/comment-page-1/#comment-114271</link>
		<dc:creator>Tomaltach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/?p=4380#comment-114271</guid>
		<description>EddieL, you are right that increases and decreases apply to gross. But in terms of providing for a family and covering household expenditure, it is take home that matters.

A 5% decrease in take home is unpleasant, but hardly a catastrophe. Certainly not for those with mortgages and who use petrol or oil. Since last year some mortage monthly repayments have decreased by a full 20%. The same applies to the price of oil. And there are predictions that other commodities this year, perhaps most, will be down at least a few percentage points. In that context a five percent drop in take home pay is certainly not a huge blow to standard of living.

But as the title of the post suggests - it&#039;s the regressive nature which is unfair. After deducations, tax etc, surely if those on lower incomes are down 4% then those on higher incomes should be taking a bigger hit, say 10%. Or put it another way, those on the very lowest salaries could have been spared altogher and hit those on higher salaries a bit harder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EddieL, you are right that increases and decreases apply to gross. But in terms of providing for a family and covering household expenditure, it is take home that matters.</p>
<p>A 5% decrease in take home is unpleasant, but hardly a catastrophe. Certainly not for those with mortgages and who use petrol or oil. Since last year some mortage monthly repayments have decreased by a full 20%. The same applies to the price of oil. And there are predictions that other commodities this year, perhaps most, will be down at least a few percentage points. In that context a five percent drop in take home pay is certainly not a huge blow to standard of living.</p>
<p>But as the title of the post suggests &#8211; it&#8217;s the regressive nature which is unfair. After deducations, tax etc, surely if those on lower incomes are down 4% then those on higher incomes should be taking a bigger hit, say 10%. Or put it another way, those on the very lowest salaries could have been spared altogher and hit those on higher salaries a bit harder.</p>
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		<title>By: Veronica</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2009/02/the-pension-levy-is-regressive/comment-page-1/#comment-114264</link>
		<dc:creator>Veronica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/?p=4380#comment-114264</guid>
		<description>The goalposts have been moved by ICTU - this is now a battle to prevent wages across the economy from being lowered, which is an employers/government/conservative media conspiracy according to them.

Jack O&#039;Connor of Siptu is reported as saying that widespread industrial action will be required to defeat this conspiracy to &quot;drive down wages in the private sector&quot; whilst the &quot;wealthy (are) not contributing a single cent.&quot; Ballots for a &#039;day of action&#039; to campaign against the pensions&#039; levy are now in progress amongst public sector union members, the result of which presumably, given the genuine and justified anger amongst lower paid public servants over the unfairness of the measure as currently proposed, will be overwhelmingly in favour.

So what are the facts here?

Even before they went into talks with the government and employers  last month, the trade union leadership ruled out any pay cuts in the public sector. Yet they signed up to a document that accepted that 2bn euro needed to taken out of public spending this year. It appears their preference was for  this amount to be raised from increasing income taxes, especially on the higher paid - highly laudable considering the basic salary packages most of them enjoy (about ten times the annual wage of their lower paid members and that&#039;s not including other salaries for Board memberships, expenses, perks etc. deriving from the Social Partnership quango  gravy train.) The compromise offered by the Government was the pensions levy. And then the unions ran for the hills.

So has the requirement to reduce public expenditure by 2bn euro this year changed? No. Will the government change its mind on the mechanism of a pensions levy? Yes it can, but the alternative might be a 10% pay cut across the board in the public sector as was originally proposed, plus a requirement for probably as many as 30,000 jobs losses across the public sector over the next couple of years. 

Are immediate increases in taxation - some economists estimate that the requirement would be for 30% as the base rate and 60% for the higher rate - an option for the government? No, not right now, if ever. Besides, everyone knows we need to widen the tax base, increase the rates and raise new forms of taxation (property and carbon taxes) in 2010 to raise an additonal 3bn euro. (Raising taxes any further now would only accelerate the increase in unemployment. Generally the hope is that the US and other stimulus packages and banking recapitalisation will show some result in the next year to eighteen months and therefore ease the situation in our own economy, so that the introduction of penal and possibly self-defeating tax increases can be avoided.)

Meanwhile, can the pensions levy proposal be &#039;tweaked&#039; to make it more fair in its impact on lower and middle paid public servants? Yes, it can.


So it seems that what the union leaders are about is creating a means for allowing members let off steam - a bit like the 250,000 strong tax marches of the late &#039;seventies, a great day out for us all marching along behind our colourful union banners on Leinster house and drifting off home again, feeling good; though nothing happened in consequence. 

After the steam release, they will get down to the real business of negotiating with the government on the implementation of its unpalatable measures under the umbrella of social partnership. Won&#039;t they?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The goalposts have been moved by ICTU &#8211; this is now a battle to prevent wages across the economy from being lowered, which is an employers/government/conservative media conspiracy according to them.</p>
<p>Jack O&#8217;Connor of Siptu is reported as saying that widespread industrial action will be required to defeat this conspiracy to &#8220;drive down wages in the private sector&#8221; whilst the &#8220;wealthy (are) not contributing a single cent.&#8221; Ballots for a &#8216;day of action&#8217; to campaign against the pensions&#8217; levy are now in progress amongst public sector union members, the result of which presumably, given the genuine and justified anger amongst lower paid public servants over the unfairness of the measure as currently proposed, will be overwhelmingly in favour.</p>
<p>So what are the facts here?</p>
<p>Even before they went into talks with the government and employers  last month, the trade union leadership ruled out any pay cuts in the public sector. Yet they signed up to a document that accepted that 2bn euro needed to taken out of public spending this year. It appears their preference was for  this amount to be raised from increasing income taxes, especially on the higher paid &#8211; highly laudable considering the basic salary packages most of them enjoy (about ten times the annual wage of their lower paid members and that&#8217;s not including other salaries for Board memberships, expenses, perks etc. deriving from the Social Partnership quango  gravy train.) The compromise offered by the Government was the pensions levy. And then the unions ran for the hills.</p>
<p>So has the requirement to reduce public expenditure by 2bn euro this year changed? No. Will the government change its mind on the mechanism of a pensions levy? Yes it can, but the alternative might be a 10% pay cut across the board in the public sector as was originally proposed, plus a requirement for probably as many as 30,000 jobs losses across the public sector over the next couple of years. </p>
<p>Are immediate increases in taxation &#8211; some economists estimate that the requirement would be for 30% as the base rate and 60% for the higher rate &#8211; an option for the government? No, not right now, if ever. Besides, everyone knows we need to widen the tax base, increase the rates and raise new forms of taxation (property and carbon taxes) in 2010 to raise an additonal 3bn euro. (Raising taxes any further now would only accelerate the increase in unemployment. Generally the hope is that the US and other stimulus packages and banking recapitalisation will show some result in the next year to eighteen months and therefore ease the situation in our own economy, so that the introduction of penal and possibly self-defeating tax increases can be avoided.)</p>
<p>Meanwhile, can the pensions levy proposal be &#8216;tweaked&#8217; to make it more fair in its impact on lower and middle paid public servants? Yes, it can.</p>
<p>So it seems that what the union leaders are about is creating a means for allowing members let off steam &#8211; a bit like the 250,000 strong tax marches of the late &#8216;seventies, a great day out for us all marching along behind our colourful union banners on Leinster house and drifting off home again, feeling good; though nothing happened in consequence. </p>
<p>After the steam release, they will get down to the real business of negotiating with the government on the implementation of its unpalatable measures under the umbrella of social partnership. Won&#8217;t they?</p>
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		<title>By: EddieL</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2009/02/the-pension-levy-is-regressive/comment-page-1/#comment-114258</link>
		<dc:creator>EddieL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/?p=4380#comment-114258</guid>
		<description>Tomaltach: Percentage wage increases always applied to gross wages. Similarly percentage wage reductions apply to gross wages. This means that public sector wages are being reduced by the stated percentages (we&#039;ll pretend that it is a pension contribution). Take home pay can vary between individuals as we see with millionaires paying little or no tax. Therefore it is the gross income that is important. For instance it should be noted that pension contributions are only tax-deductible to a maximum of 15% of gross income (unless it has changed recently) and having worked in the pensions area I know that some people who started late etc have reached that limit with AVC&#039;s etc prior to this levy. Perhaps it should also be noted that some public servants like Secondary teachers have a voluntary pension scheme, so it may be worth their while opting out of the scheme until the government sees the pitfalls in what they have proposed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tomaltach: Percentage wage increases always applied to gross wages. Similarly percentage wage reductions apply to gross wages. This means that public sector wages are being reduced by the stated percentages (we&#8217;ll pretend that it is a pension contribution). Take home pay can vary between individuals as we see with millionaires paying little or no tax. Therefore it is the gross income that is important. For instance it should be noted that pension contributions are only tax-deductible to a maximum of 15% of gross income (unless it has changed recently) and having worked in the pensions area I know that some people who started late etc have reached that limit with AVC&#8217;s etc prior to this levy. Perhaps it should also be noted that some public servants like Secondary teachers have a voluntary pension scheme, so it may be worth their while opting out of the scheme until the government sees the pitfalls in what they have proposed.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomaltach</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2009/02/the-pension-levy-is-regressive/comment-page-1/#comment-114257</link>
		<dc:creator>Tomaltach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/?p=4380#comment-114257</guid>
		<description>Therese, are you sure it&#039;s 10%. (Not suggesting that if it&#039;s 4% that it&#039;s nothing). But the figures I read in the papers (and the average given by P O&#039;Neill in the original post above) had it at around 4% of take home pay. Those on higher salaries will pay a higer levy - up to around 9% I think. Those on lower salaries pay a lower levy - down to about 3% ish. But this is from gross income. And therefore some of it would have gone on tax anyway. For higher earners more of it would have gone on tax, so their say 9% is pared back significantly. Those on lower incomes have a smaller tax effect. But overall the figures hover between 4 and 5% of take home pay. 

So if these figures are correct you will not lose 10% of your take home, but significantly less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Therese, are you sure it&#8217;s 10%. (Not suggesting that if it&#8217;s 4% that it&#8217;s nothing). But the figures I read in the papers (and the average given by P O&#8217;Neill in the original post above) had it at around 4% of take home pay. Those on higher salaries will pay a higer levy &#8211; up to around 9% I think. Those on lower salaries pay a lower levy &#8211; down to about 3% ish. But this is from gross income. And therefore some of it would have gone on tax anyway. For higher earners more of it would have gone on tax, so their say 9% is pared back significantly. Those on lower incomes have a smaller tax effect. But overall the figures hover between 4 and 5% of take home pay. </p>
<p>So if these figures are correct you will not lose 10% of your take home, but significantly less.</p>
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