Comments on: The Unreported Yes Vote

By: seanachie

seanachie — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:42:23 +0000

Tóibín’s point about the EU having a positive effect on Irish legislation is credible but homosexuality was legalised in 1993, not the 1970s. One might more persuasively argue that it was the two Rainbow governments of the mid 90s that were responsible for this, as well as other socially progressively legislation introduced at the time. It might have been limited but it was more than had been done for twenty years before that. The 1980s, in the post-Pope flurry of Catholic activism, were arguably worse than the 70s, and Irish governments didn’t feel terribly pressurised by Brussels to brighten things up.

By: V

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:06:06 +0000

No but Libertas are the big winners and we are the mugs.

By: Simon

Simon — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:02:47 +0000

The no vote was due to the treaty being 247 pages long and confussing plain and simple i think.

By: Garry Miley

Garry Miley — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:02:51 +0000

Tomaltach, I take your point about the fact that we ‘don’t’ have good environmental legislation even though we ‘could’. But isn’t that up to us? I mean, are we to simply to turn to Europe every time we have to legislate for things that we can’t bring ourselves to address?

Having Europe do for us what we can’t is a tempting reason to vote for Europe, not a good one. As a society, we have to grow up and take responsbility for our own patch of turf, otherwise we may as well abandon the project entirely.

As a no voter, I must say I am curious as to why Declan Ganley is meeting Eurosceptics in London. Although, at the back of it all, in my gut I don’t really think that Libertas delivered the no vote. It was something else, something we haven’t yet put our finger on.

By: Tomaltach

Tomaltach — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:41:55 +0000

As an additional point. I find it interesting how a growing Eurosceptic sentiment in Ireland tries to disguise itself as a voice for a better European Union when what it means is it views a better Europe as one without the Union. “I’m pro-Europe, but”. A bit like Declan Ganley heading off to Westminster to a wankfest to virulent Eurosceptics. Yes, Ganley, your pro-EU alright. What a pile of toss.

By: Tomaltach

Tomaltach — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:35:20 +0000

there’s no real reason why we can’t have the best environmental and planning legislation in Europe, with or without the EU. No reason why we couldn’t, just that, sadly, the record so far shows that we don’t. Incidentally, it will be interesting to see if Brians Cowen and Lenihan veto some of the environmental promises in the program for government on the basis that we are now in a downturn and cannot afford luxuries like the environment.

Even if you disagree with the provisions in Lisbon, there is no point in trying to deny the significant progressive measures that Ireland enjoys as a result of EU membership.

By: Simon

Simon — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:14:36 +0000

Cian I doubt that question will ever be asked. People voted Yes because the Lisbon treaty is the greatest thing since sliced bread and don’t you forget it. Less the ninjas come after you

By: Garry Miley

Garry Miley — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:38:57 +0000

Yes, the Greens and others with environmental concerns saw a yes vote as a vote for the environment. EU environmental law may or may not be better than that generated in Dublin, but the fact that it may be is not sufficient reason for supporting the Treaty: there’s no real reason why we can’t have the best environmental and planning legislation in Europe, with or without the EU.

By: Cian

Cian — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:58:47 +0000

Was it not the Green argument too that most of our best environmental law has come from Europe and not Dublin?

Its interesting that the leaked polls didnt say much about why people vote yes.