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	<title>Comments on: ESRI: Irish Economy to Enter Recession</title>
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	<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2008/06/the-big-r-word/</link>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2008/06/the-big-r-word/comment-page-1/#comment-68435</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/?p=3277#comment-68435</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Prices went from the standard income multiple of 3 or 4 up to about 9 over the last few years. &lt;/em&gt;

But in a few years time they will be needed. Forward planning. :)

The problem was relieing so much on it. With our tax system based on it. We Irish were always going to go Bull McCabe and build loads of houses. The problem was relying on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Prices went from the standard income multiple of 3 or 4 up to about 9 over the last few years. </em></p>
<p>But in a few years time they will be needed. Forward planning. <img src='http://www.irishelection.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The problem was relieing so much on it. With our tax system based on it. We Irish were always going to go Bull McCabe and build loads of houses. The problem was relying on it.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron M</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2008/06/the-big-r-word/comment-page-1/#comment-68422</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/?p=3277#comment-68422</guid>
		<description>simon,
I think I was reminded of that before but I forgot. However, it doesn&#039;t change things from the point of view of house prices. Compared to much of Europe, I&#039;d guess we have a younger population and slightly larger families and hence we would be expected to have a slightly fewer houses.

Prices went from the standard income multiple of 3 or 4 up to about 9 over the last few years. Nothing actually changed to justifiably cause this. The immigration was matched by the rate that new houses were built. We are a quite sparsely populated land.

This madness caused the emigration which we&#039;re going to see, which will free up more property. I&#039;m not complaining as my rent is coming down!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>simon,<br />
I think I was reminded of that before but I forgot. However, it doesn&#8217;t change things from the point of view of house prices. Compared to much of Europe, I&#8217;d guess we have a younger population and slightly larger families and hence we would be expected to have a slightly fewer houses.</p>
<p>Prices went from the standard income multiple of 3 or 4 up to about 9 over the last few years. Nothing actually changed to justifiably cause this. The immigration was matched by the rate that new houses were built. We are a quite sparsely populated land.</p>
<p>This madness caused the emigration which we&#8217;re going to see, which will free up more property. I&#8217;m not complaining as my rent is coming down!</p>
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		<title>By: simon</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2008/06/the-big-r-word/comment-page-1/#comment-68376</link>
		<dc:creator>simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/?p=3277#comment-68376</guid>
		<description>Another interesting point Arron is that we have fewer houses per capita then most of Europe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another interesting point Arron is that we have fewer houses per capita then most of Europe.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron McDaid</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2008/06/the-big-r-word/comment-page-1/#comment-68270</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron McDaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/?p=3277#comment-68270</guid>
		<description>The fundamentals of this recession are sound.

The Irish people stopped working a few years ago and just partied on borrowed money ever since. As far as I&#039;m concerned, we&#039;ve been in recession since about 2002 but have papered over the fact by borrowing money from abroad to import goods from abroad because we&#039;re too lazy to make them ourselves - and too lazy to make any suitable exports in return.

We&#039;re in damage limitation mode now, which means that it&#039;ll be difficult to judge whether, for example, 10% unemployment is a good outlook or bad outlook from this juncture.

While it does appear that the government&#039;s finances are in reasonable shape, with national debt being relatively low, it is only half the story. Irish people and banks are up to their eyeballs in international debt. The government manipulated the market by refusing to apply capital gains tax to property and therefore is to blame for the current mess, even if its own accounts are (currently) not looking as bad as they did in the 80&#039;s.

We&#039;ve been wasting so much of our labour building houses to the extent that we now have more empty houses than we did in 2002 (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.irishelection.com/08/irish-housing-watching-a-fat-man-dance/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;thanks Conor&lt;/a&gt;). You don&#039;t need to be study the economy to see that&#039;s unsustainable. If we had all our population working on building sites we&#039;d starve to death in weeks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fundamentals of this recession are sound.</p>
<p>The Irish people stopped working a few years ago and just partied on borrowed money ever since. As far as I&#8217;m concerned, we&#8217;ve been in recession since about 2002 but have papered over the fact by borrowing money from abroad to import goods from abroad because we&#8217;re too lazy to make them ourselves &#8211; and too lazy to make any suitable exports in return.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re in damage limitation mode now, which means that it&#8217;ll be difficult to judge whether, for example, 10% unemployment is a good outlook or bad outlook from this juncture.</p>
<p>While it does appear that the government&#8217;s finances are in reasonable shape, with national debt being relatively low, it is only half the story. Irish people and banks are up to their eyeballs in international debt. The government manipulated the market by refusing to apply capital gains tax to property and therefore is to blame for the current mess, even if its own accounts are (currently) not looking as bad as they did in the 80&#8242;s.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve been wasting so much of our labour building houses to the extent that we now have more empty houses than we did in 2002 (<a href="http://www.irishelection.com/08/irish-housing-watching-a-fat-man-dance/" rel="nofollow">thanks Conor</a>). You don&#8217;t need to be study the economy to see that&#8217;s unsustainable. If we had all our population working on building sites we&#8217;d starve to death in weeks.</p>
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		<title>By: andy wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2008/06/the-big-r-word/comment-page-1/#comment-68223</link>
		<dc:creator>andy wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/?p=3277#comment-68223</guid>
		<description>Over the last 15 months, each  successive ESRI quarterly report has underestimated the economic downturn, and has been over-optimistic about the period of recovery. This is still the case. What evidence is there of an up turn in 2009?

The full impact of the collapse of the construction industry will not be felt for another 12 months at least. Equally, the effect of  record high energy prices is only now beginning to work its way down the supply chain.

In all likelihood, 2009 and 2010 will be significantly worse than 2008. 

The picture in 3-6 months time will be interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over the last 15 months, each  successive ESRI quarterly report has underestimated the economic downturn, and has been over-optimistic about the period of recovery. This is still the case. What evidence is there of an up turn in 2009?</p>
<p>The full impact of the collapse of the construction industry will not be felt for another 12 months at least. Equally, the effect of  record high energy prices is only now beginning to work its way down the supply chain.</p>
<p>In all likelihood, 2009 and 2010 will be significantly worse than 2008. </p>
<p>The picture in 3-6 months time will be interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Damien Mulley &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The ESRI Recession Scoop</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2008/06/the-big-r-word/comment-page-1/#comment-68014</link>
		<dc:creator>Damien Mulley &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The ESRI Recession Scoop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/?p=3277#comment-68014</guid>
		<description>[...] you may want to subscribe to my site using a feedreader or email. Thanks for visiting - Damien.Recession is official. As seen on IrishElection.com first!   Digg it! &#124;  Reddit &#124;   Del.icio.us &#124;   Stumble Upon &#124;   [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you may want to subscribe to my site using a feedreader or email. Thanks for visiting &#8211; Damien.Recession is official. As seen on IrishElection.com first!   Digg it! |  Reddit |   Del.icio.us |   Stumble Upon |   [...]</p>
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