Comments on: Economic Conundrum as Unemployment Rises http://www.irishelection.com/2008/05/economic-conundrum-as-unemployment-rises/ Coverage of Irish Politics, News and Current Affairs Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:43:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.5 By: Aaron M http://www.irishelection.com/2008/05/economic-conundrum-as-unemployment-rises/comment-page-1/#comment-64375 Aaron M Mon, 12 May 2008 17:11:36 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/?p=3084#comment-64375 The current problems, and any solutions, aren't really related to globalisation per se. We Irish dug ourselves into a hole and kept digging. The Irish ran up huge debts based on entirely mythical notions of wealth creation (e.g. housing speculation engaged in by a significant proportion of our population); we got ourselves into a good old-fashioned pyramid scheme and now owe billions. The only effect of globalisation on all this was that it made it easier for the English-speaking world to coordinate the continued digging! The Irish stopped working and earning, and instead consumed goods and services we have not paid for yet. How could we possibly save ourselves now by ending trade with other countries now? We need to get more educated on the real causes of the current woes before trying to fix them. The current problems were caused years ago the moment the housing pyramid bubble started inflating (2002 or earlier). We can no more fix the problem now than we can travel through time to improve bank practices. Damage limitation is the name of the game now, and perhaps the government did one thing right by keeping national debt low. The current problems, and any solutions, aren’t really related to globalisation per se. We Irish dug ourselves into a hole and kept digging. The Irish ran up huge debts based on entirely mythical notions of wealth creation (e.g. housing speculation engaged in by a significant proportion of our population); we got ourselves into a good old-fashioned pyramid scheme and now owe billions. The only effect of globalisation on all this was that it made it easier for the English-speaking world to coordinate the continued digging!

The Irish stopped working and earning, and instead consumed goods and services we have not paid for yet. How could we possibly save ourselves now by ending trade with other countries now? We need to get more educated on the real causes of the current woes before trying to fix them.

The current problems were caused years ago the moment the housing pyramid bubble started inflating (2002 or earlier). We can no more fix the problem now than we can travel through time to improve bank practices. Damage limitation is the name of the game now, and perhaps the government did one thing right by keeping national debt low.

]]> By: simon http://www.irishelection.com/2008/05/economic-conundrum-as-unemployment-rises/comment-page-1/#comment-64226 simon Fri, 02 May 2008 18:05:08 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/?p=3084#comment-64226 Ahh got ya. Well in an Irish context our ability to rain against balanced budgets is limited by the EU while the likes of France can get away with it I doubt we would. As for competitiveness. I am to disinterested in politics at the moment to get into it. :) Ahh got ya. Well in an Irish context our ability to rain against balanced budgets is limited by the EU while the likes of France can get away with it I doubt we would. As for competitiveness. I am to disinterested in politics at the moment to get into it. :)

]]> By: Cian http://www.irishelection.com/2008/05/economic-conundrum-as-unemployment-rises/comment-page-1/#comment-64224 Cian Fri, 02 May 2008 16:46:14 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/?p=3084#comment-64224 sorry I could have been clearer, it meant that to natural labour voters the government was prioritising fiscal balance over the welfare of its core vote. Im not saying its a direct link to globalisation but rather tied into the focus on balanced budgets and competitiveness - a key part of the globalised system - and symptomatic of Labour over 10+ years. sorry I could have been clearer, it meant that to natural labour voters the government was prioritising fiscal balance over the welfare of its core vote. Im not saying its a direct link to globalisation but rather tied into the focus on balanced budgets and competitiveness – a key part of the globalised system – and symptomatic of Labour over 10+ years.

]]> By: simon http://www.irishelection.com/2008/05/economic-conundrum-as-unemployment-rises/comment-page-1/#comment-64223 simon Fri, 02 May 2008 16:18:13 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/?p=3084#comment-64223 <em>I think the abolition of the 10p rate sent that signal to ‘natural’ labour voters that the parties focus remained on managing globalisation - and the fiscal constraints that are accepted by that.</em> I am not quiet sure what you mean by that? The 10p rate was the lowest rate of tax here. The abolition effected the worse off or the "natural" labour voters. Maybe a reason that they left for the tories. Not sure what globalisation has to do with it? I think the abolition of the 10p rate sent that signal to ‘natural’ labour voters that the parties focus remained on managing globalisation – and the fiscal constraints that are accepted by that.
I am not quiet sure what you mean by that? The 10p rate was the lowest rate of tax here. The abolition effected the worse off or the “natural” labour voters. Maybe a reason that they left for the tories. Not sure what globalisation has to do with it?

]]> By: Cian http://www.irishelection.com/2008/05/economic-conundrum-as-unemployment-rises/comment-page-1/#comment-64222 Cian Fri, 02 May 2008 16:03:57 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/?p=3084#comment-64222 I agree Simon but the tories didn't really have to do much - I think the abolition of the 10p rate sent that signal to 'natural' labour voters that the parties focus remained on managing globalisation - and the fiscal constraints that are accepted by that. I agree it is not the entire story at all, Brown and Labour are looking jaded, presented as jaded and (worst of all) acting like they are jaded. Many lessons for here it seems. Dan that is an interesting point and the voices in the party do appear to have less of a gritty, loose-cannon feel. The reasons voters might see them is similar is also partly due to years of trinagulation - a strategy which works both ways. I agree Simon but the tories didn’t really have to do much – I think the abolition of the 10p rate sent that signal to ‘natural’ labour voters that the parties focus remained on managing globalisation – and the fiscal constraints that are accepted by that. I agree it is not the entire story at all, Brown and Labour are looking jaded, presented as jaded and (worst of all) acting like they are jaded.

Many lessons for here it seems.

Dan that is an interesting point and the voices in the party do appear to have less of a gritty, loose-cannon feel. The reasons voters might see them is similar is also partly due to years of trinagulation – a strategy which works both ways.

]]> By: Dan Sullivan http://www.irishelection.com/2008/05/economic-conundrum-as-unemployment-rises/comment-page-1/#comment-64221 Dan Sullivan Fri, 02 May 2008 15:47:25 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/?p=3084#comment-64221 I can't help feeling the shift in the UK is partially assisted by the rise of the professional political class ala the Millibands within the Labour party they don't seem that different from Cameron or Osborne and so people in middle England don't perceive it as that much of a leap to vote for them. I think the next GE there is going to be really interesting. I can’t help feeling the shift in the UK is partially assisted by the rise of the professional political class ala the Millibands within the Labour party they don’t seem that different from Cameron or Osborne and so people in middle England don’t perceive it as that much of a leap to vote for them. I think the next GE there is going to be really interesting.

]]> By: simon http://www.irishelection.com/2008/05/economic-conundrum-as-unemployment-rises/comment-page-1/#comment-64218 simon Fri, 02 May 2008 13:49:37 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/?p=3084#comment-64218 <em>Last night suggests that this has changed, governments who were slavish in implementing the policies of globalisation as inevitable are being turned on by voters who would like a little less of it.</em> I wouldn't say the loss by labour was a vote for less globalisation. The tories are far from an anti-globalisation party. The nationalisation of Northern Rock had a part to play and the tories voted against that. So it could be agrued that it was a vote against more government spending as well. However i think is it just a case of people being tired of Labour and Brown. Cameron Moisturises Brown doesn't :) Last night suggests that this has changed, governments who were slavish in implementing the policies of globalisation as inevitable are being turned on by voters who would like a little less of it. I wouldn’t say the loss by labour was a vote for less globalisation. The tories are far from an anti-globalisation party. The nationalisation of Northern Rock had a part to play and the tories voted against that. So it could be agrued that it was a vote against more government spending as well.

However i think is it just a case of people being tired of Labour and Brown. Cameron Moisturises Brown doesn’t :)

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