Comments on: So, what’s the worst that can happen? Ahern and Fianna Fáil

By: soubresauts

soubresauts — Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:27:23 +0000

Peter Sutherland?? You mean you want Ireland run by the Bilderberg Group?

Quoting Wikipedia:
“Some of the Western world’s leading financiers and foreign policy strategists attend Bilderberg. Donald Rumsfeld is an active Bilderberger, as is Peter Sutherland from Ireland, a former European Union commissioner and chairman of Goldman Sachs and of British Petroleum. Rumsfeld and Sutherland served together in 2000 on the board of the Swedish/Swiss engineering company ABB. Former U.S. Deputy Defense Secretary and former World Bank head Paul Wolfowitz is also a member…”

Sort of helps you to see Bertie’s virtues, doesn’t it?

By: sos

sos — Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:47:03 +0000

No, I was thinking of someone like Peter Sutherland.

By: WorldbyStorm

WorldbyStorm — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:04:30 +0000

Well, we’ll see, won’t we? That seems to both inflate his importance, and simultaneously diminish it.

Incidentally, is Cowen the sort of leader you envisage?

By: sos

sos — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:54:00 +0000

I think I must agree with WorldbyStorm.
My point was that Ahern can no more force a Constitution on Europe than a comprehensive agreement on the North. He can lend the weight & support of the Irish People and be their voice. The UK have wanted to be rid of the North since the end of WW2. It is the people of the North that want British protection, to say nothing of the huge subsidies.
The real issues facing Ireland are financial and the fall out from the greed of American bankers.

I wrote a post, in May 2006, called “Whither Apathy” – setting out the probable result of a continuance of the downward trends in the USA.

I felt then, that the tipping point had arrived and as soon as the feel good factor of the 2007 SSIAs had evaporated, the realities of the situation in the USA would begin to happen here.

IT IS HERE – NOW…

…and we need a strong leader to bring in the necessary remedies.

And that is not Mr. Ahern.

By: WorldbyStorm

WorldbyStorm — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:26:03 +0000

sos, I’m no fan of Ahern on a political level, but he actually has done some service to the state. You and I clearly differ about the issue of the North. Frankly, and I’ve said it before, there could be no greater issue as regards the stability of this state as a democratic polity, and any Taoiseach would have to deal with it. The idea that it is the sole responsibility of the UK is ahistoric – and I’m sorry to use the word – nonsense. As regards other issues, well the record is more mixed, but to suggest he has done nothing of value to the RoI is simply incorrect. You and I may actually agree that certain things were very badly handled, but that is a different issue.

By: Diarmy

Diarmy — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:06:36 +0000

I give up.

By: sos

sos — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:56:28 +0000

You ask what is the worst that can happen?
I think the best that can happen is for the Tribunal to find Bertie culpable.

Darmy asks how history will judge him.

When General Burgoyne, in “The Devil’s Disciple” (GB Shaw), was asked, by his adjutant, how history would record the disaster (in the American campaign), the general replied, “History, as usual, will tell lies” .
The only consistency about history is that every time it repeats itself, the price goes up.
Apart from the Minimum Wage legislation (A sop to his brothers in the unions), I cannot recall anything that Bertie Ahern did that was of value to the Republic of Ireland. He even drinks imported beer. He seemed to spend an inordinate amount of time traveling the world, duplicating Dermot Ahern’s bailiwick in Foreign Affairs.
A leader should be in his Dail office 24/7, managing the country he was elected to run. Not the North of Ireland, which is the responsibility of the UK; not Europe which has capable people to carry out their responsibilities.

I doubt that he will be elected President of the EU Council. For starters, he cannot communicate in English, let alone French; Spanish; German etc… Secondly, he is basically a trade union negotiator; a compromiser who cannot function without professionally prepared briefing papers. And he is not a Statesman.

Best to join his comrades in the movement; take his €250K a year and expenses, grow a beard and buy a pair of sandals.

By: Diarmy

Diarmy — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:48:15 +0000

I agree with your analogy completely. The impact of the Tribunal is 2 years away yet, when the final report is written. By that time, Bertie will have reached his tender age of 58 and will most likely be appointed President of the EU Council. The report will no doubt be long-winded and vague, like all legal documents. And the perceived notion of its damage to Ahern will not be as damaging as predicted. The overall sense of futility is what most Irish people feel at present. Yes, there probably was an element of wrong-doing in the events of 1993, but given the long list of tax defaulters with settlements well into the millions from all corners of the island in those times, Bertie is guilty only of the status quo. I vehemently believe that he is sorry for the circumstances, but can see his reasoning for not thinking it was wrong. It doesn’t excuse him from incorrectness, but we have more to be grateful for than to resent. Bertie is but one man in the cog of Irish progression. History will be the judge of how big his input and drive was in the republic and the north. But his ultimately legacy I believe is that Ireland is better for him than without him.

diarmy