Comments on: The definition of Ireland http://www.irishelection.com/2007/08/the-definition-of-ireland/ Coverage of Irish Politics, News and Current Affairs Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:23:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.5 By: Majid http://www.irishelection.com/2007/08/the-definition-of-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-114149 Majid Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:33:08 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/08/the-definition-of-ireland/#comment-114149 Dear Sir/Madam, You need a hand with digitizing your Logos and other needs. We, PAYLESS DIGITIZING is a team of expert digitizers. A professional team with more than 6 years of experience would like to offer you quality digitizing services at lowest price in the world. Payless is a team of 7 experienced digitizers and designers. We are serving around the globe with offices in Canada and Pakistan and UK. I assure that you and your customers will receive a superb quality work professionally designed and at a great price too! Our charges are very reasonable: * Only $ 2.00 for per 1000 stitches. * No extra charges for rush jobs. * No extra charges for editing and format conversion. * 24 hours friendly and quick online service. * Free trail of 1 to 2 Logos. * Let now join us and save your time and money Let’s join hands together and become successful business partners. You can contact us at bosslittlemaster@gmail.com. Looking forward to hear from you. Yours truly, Majid Payless Digitizing Dear Sir/Madam,

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]]> By: Aer Lingus Pilots May Still Strike | Irish Election http://www.irishelection.com/2007/08/the-definition-of-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-55152 Aer Lingus Pilots May Still Strike | Irish Election Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:40:49 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/08/the-definition-of-ireland/#comment-55152 [...] Whatever about the positions they have adopted, government, Bertie in particular, have been very effective at ramping down the Shannon issue as a story. When Bertie decided to speak earlier this week it was clearly a signal that he felt it is now a much dimmer story than the one which overtook most of August. Yet the threatened strike at Aer Lingus, reconnected to the Shannon issue from which is sprung will throw the whole issue open again as the Dail nears resumption. It may also force Bertie to in some way address the issue raised about the definition of Ireland. [...] [...] Whatever about the positions they have adopted, government, Bertie in particular, have been very effective at ramping down the Shannon issue as a story. When Bertie decided to speak earlier this week it was clearly a signal that he felt it is now a much dimmer story than the one which overtook most of August. Yet the threatened strike at Aer Lingus, reconnected to the Shannon issue from which is sprung will throw the whole issue open again as the Dail nears resumption. It may also force Bertie to in some way address the issue raised about the definition of Ireland. [...]

]]> By: Niall http://www.irishelection.com/2007/08/the-definition-of-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-54742 Niall Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:42:39 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/08/the-definition-of-ireland/#comment-54742 Is Belfast British? I know that the British government jurisdiction over the region is widely recofnised, but isn't it the UK the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? Doesn't that suggest that Northern Ireland is distinct from Great Britain? And if it is not part of Great Britain, then how exactly is it British? And John, the very notion of Northern Ireland being democratic is a joke. Its borders were drawn in such a way that it mocks the very notion of democracy. Craig and co took as much land as they could while maintaining a viable unionist majority against the wishes of the vast majority of people in this country. Remember the two largest counties had nationalist majorities, and the unionists turned down the notion of a nine county Ulster region of governance of the basis, and they turned down a three county Northern Ireland. That is not to say that county boundaries are the ideal basis for creating the borders of a state. It is only supposed to illustrate the problematic nature of any democratic process in Northern Ireland. Is Belfast British? I know that the British government jurisdiction over the region is widely recofnised, but isn’t it the UK the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? Doesn’t that suggest that Northern Ireland is distinct from Great Britain? And if it is not part of Great Britain, then how exactly is it British?

And John, the very notion of Northern Ireland being democratic is a joke. Its borders were drawn in such a way that it mocks the very notion of democracy. Craig and co took as much land as they could while maintaining a viable unionist majority against the wishes of the vast majority of people in this country. Remember the two largest counties had nationalist majorities, and the unionists turned down the notion of a nine county Ulster region of governance of the basis, and they turned down a three county Northern Ireland. That is not to say that county boundaries are the ideal basis for creating the borders of a state. It is only supposed to illustrate the problematic nature of any democratic process in Northern Ireland.

]]> By: Keith Gaughan http://www.irishelection.com/2007/08/the-definition-of-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-54736 Keith Gaughan Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:31:58 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/08/the-definition-of-ireland/#comment-54736 @James: Belfast is Irish, it's just not part of the Irish state. Pretty clear-cut. Belfast is also British, being in the UK, as JohnMac noted. There's no contradiction between being Irish and British, in spite of what some may think. NI is on the same land-mass as RoI, so North and South cooperate on things where it makes sense. The same thing happens with lots of sovereign states. One little thing though: under UK and Irish law, Ireland and the UK do not consider each other 'foreign' nations, simply sovereign. This is part of the basis for the Common Travel Area and why any of us can, almost at the drop of a hat, relocate to the UK, and British subjects can do, and do, do the same. Isn't politics fun! @James: Belfast is Irish, it’s just not part of the Irish state. Pretty clear-cut. Belfast is also British, being in the UK, as JohnMac noted. There’s no contradiction between being Irish and British, in spite of what some may think.

NI is on the same land-mass as RoI, so North and South cooperate on things where it makes sense. The same thing happens with lots of sovereign states.

One little thing though: under UK and Irish law, Ireland and the UK do not consider each other ‘foreign’ nations, simply sovereign. This is part of the basis for the Common Travel Area and why any of us can, almost at the drop of a hat, relocate to the UK, and British subjects can do, and do, do the same. Isn’t politics fun!

]]> By: JohnMac http://www.irishelection.com/2007/08/the-definition-of-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-54735 JohnMac Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:58:59 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/08/the-definition-of-ireland/#comment-54735 Belfast is part of the United Kingdom. The majority of the people in Belfast want it to remain part of the United Kingdom. It's time the recent converts to democracy in Sinn Fein IRA (although some of them already appearing to be adopting an al la carte interpertation of democracy) learned that democracy means doing what the majority want and the majority don't want them. Belfast is part of the United Kingdom. The majority of the people in Belfast want it to remain part of the United Kingdom. It’s time the recent converts to democracy in Sinn Fein IRA (although some of them already appearing to be adopting an al la carte interpertation of democracy) learned that democracy means doing what the majority want and the majority don’t want them.

]]> By: James McInerney http://www.irishelection.com/2007/08/the-definition-of-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-54734 James McInerney Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:48:08 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/08/the-definition-of-ireland/#comment-54734 Folks, The problem lies with the question. The question is designed to only allow one answer. A yes or no answer, if you like. This is precisely the problenm that has been experienced in NI for several decades. Is it part of Ireland or part of Britain? As you all know, the answer could never be given in one word and the recent agreements have been plural and based on numerous issues. So, is Belfast Irish? Part of the same country as Shannon? Well, yes and no. The question is the problem right now, not the answer. For foot-and-mouth disease, yes, for relocating Aer Lingus, no, for waterways, yes, for currency, no...and so on and so forth. And it will be like that for some time to come, I guess. My 2-cent/pence-worth. James Folks,

The problem lies with the question. The question is designed to only allow one answer. A yes or no answer, if you like. This is precisely the problenm that has been experienced in NI for several decades. Is it part of Ireland or part of Britain? As you all know, the answer could never be given in one word and the recent agreements have been plural and based on numerous issues.

So, is Belfast Irish? Part of the same country as Shannon? Well, yes and no.

The question is the problem right now, not the answer.

For foot-and-mouth disease, yes, for relocating Aer Lingus, no, for waterways, yes, for currency, no…and so on and so forth.

And it will be like that for some time to come, I guess.

My 2-cent/pence-worth.

James

]]> By: Adam Maguire http://www.irishelection.com/2007/08/the-definition-of-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-54730 Adam Maguire Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:56:56 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/08/the-definition-of-ireland/#comment-54730 Not at all, Keith - my misunderstanding which needs to be corrected! Not at all, Keith – my misunderstanding which needs to be corrected!

]]> By: Keith Gaughan http://www.irishelection.com/2007/08/the-definition-of-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-54728 Keith Gaughan Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:04:01 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/08/the-definition-of-ireland/#comment-54728 @Adam: Sorry to be a smartass, but the only difference between the two is that the former is the nominative/accusative form of the word, and the latter is the genitive of the same. Of course there's a difference, but it's precisely the same difference as between "Ireland" and "Ireland's" in English. The contrast here ought to be between <em>Éire</em> and <em>Oileán na hÉireann</em>. @Adam: Sorry to be a smartass, but the only difference between the two is that the former is the nominative/accusative form of the word, and the latter is the genitive of the same. Of course there’s a difference, but it’s precisely the same difference as between “Ireland” and “Ireland’s” in English.

The contrast here ought to be between Éire and Oileán na hÉireann.

]]> By: Simon http://www.irishelection.com/2007/08/the-definition-of-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-54726 Simon Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:28:46 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/08/the-definition-of-ireland/#comment-54726 Beano could use the same thing with Britain mis-using the definition of the term Britain which is the term for the archipelago not the largest island. Which is actually termed albion. So really people should be Alion not british and it should be Great Albion not Great Britain. But people know what is meant when they hear the term Britain as a political entity and know it does not mean Ireland. Likewise with the term Ireland. Also Beano I thought you would be happy that the Irish state wants to stop an airline moving to the UK protecting or own interests and not yours? But really this has got nothing to do with north South realations. It is about a region of the state and what Adam says. Beano could use the same thing with Britain mis-using the definition of the term Britain which is the term for the archipelago not the largest island. Which is actually termed albion. So really people should be Alion not british and it should be Great Albion not Great Britain. But people know what is meant when they hear the term Britain as a political entity and know it does not mean Ireland. Likewise with the term Ireland.

Also Beano I thought you would be happy that the Irish state wants to stop an airline moving to the UK protecting or own interests and not yours?

But really this has got nothing to do with north South realations. It is about a region of the state and what Adam says.

]]> By: Adam Maguire http://www.irishelection.com/2007/08/the-definition-of-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-54706 Adam Maguire Tue, 28 Aug 2007 00:48:25 +0000 http://www.irishelection.com/08/the-definition-of-ireland/#comment-54706 Beano - let's not turn this into anything more than it is - a Union using every trick in the book to get what it wants. There's no doubt that the words 'Ireland' and 'Irish' have been misused by many but we're thankfully reaching a maturity where that is changing - I think fewer and fewer do not see citizens of Northern Ireland as Irish, including those who deem themselves British too. As for your belief that Ireland should not have been allowed name itself such, I could say the same thing about Northern Ireland, given that it is not actually the entire North of the island of Ireland. I see no reason why a country cannot share the name of the island upon which it's situated - there's also no reason to suggest that the State has tried to commandeer the word; although some of its citizens, and some of Northern Ireland's too, most certainly have. All that said I should point out that my understanding is that in the official language of this country there is a distinction between Ireland the nation and Ireland the island - at least that's the difference I always see between Éire and Éireann. Beano – let’s not turn this into anything more than it is – a Union using every trick in the book to get what it wants.

There’s no doubt that the words ‘Ireland’ and ‘Irish’ have been misused by many but we’re thankfully reaching a maturity where that is changing – I think fewer and fewer do not see citizens of Northern Ireland as Irish, including those who deem themselves British too.

As for your belief that Ireland should not have been allowed name itself such, I could say the same thing about Northern Ireland, given that it is not actually the entire North of the island of Ireland.

I see no reason why a country cannot share the name of the island upon which it’s situated – there’s also no reason to suggest that the State has tried to commandeer the word; although some of its citizens, and some of Northern Ireland’s too, most certainly have.

All that said I should point out that my understanding is that in the official language of this country there is a distinction between Ireland the nation and Ireland the island – at least that’s the difference I always see between Éire and Éireann.

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