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Fine Gael worrying me
Read more about: Crime, Fine Gael 
The Fine Gael take on criminal justice has always worried me a bit. Mainly just from Higgins. But yesterday another thing popped up that shows me why Fine Gael in government would be slightly scary. From Irish Times.
He [McDowell] rejected a Fine Gael proposal allowing courts to admit evidence even if it had been obtained unconstitutionally. He warned that it could be open to constitutional challenge and might sink the entire Bill.
The report covers it very superficial I wonder is there more detail somewhere as to what type of evidence we were talking about.
It is typical of the amateur proposals of Fine Gael. It is no worse than stationing gardai around the M50 to wait for a crisis or giving free laptops to every student or locking teenagers up in bootcamps.
However I don’t believe Fine Gael have a real intention to introduce any of the crazy press releases they come out with 5 times a week. They are just knee jerk proposals designed to get prime air spots on oppositiontalk-106 (and lets face it if Kenny farted in a musical way he would get praise from Eamonn Keane at Lunchtime).
When they get into power all these insane ideas will disappear from the programme for government. That of course assumes they can some how make up ground in the polls to offer Labour a more realistic partnership than Fianna Failure will.
If Fine Gael’s take on justice worries you so much, surely you would link to the debate, rather than an IT report on it?
This was the Fine Gael proposal:
EXCLUSIONARY RULE
5.–(1) Where evidence is obtained in contravention of a person’s constitutional rights, whether numerated or unenumerated, such evidence may, having regard to the totality of the circumstances of the case and, in particular, the rights of the victim, be deemed by the court to be nonetheless admissible, unless—
(a) the evidence was not obtained in good faith, and
(b) the contravention of the person’s constitutional rights was–
(i) intentional, and
(ii) significant in the context of the offence alleged.”.
That does not make it any better John. How would you define Good Faith? That is extremely vague. We are putting the balance of good faith on the Gardai. I.e saying that they will never do anything wrong and lie about it. Saying “ah shite I forgot about day light savings time sorry about that” When they deliberately go out and by pass the law. judging what we are hearing about the Gardai in Donegal. Can we ever again trust 100% the Gardai’s intentions?
I’m pretty sure that Good faith is a used in some legal mechanisms and that we have some precedent about what it means in the Irish legal context.
Thing with good faith is that it means that the Garda did not mean to break the constitution. Which means that decisions are being based on the Garda’s interpretation of the constitution not the judges. A judge should be the only person to interpret the constitution.
Simon, have you read the Dáil debate on the subject?
Glanced at it. Whats your point? For anyone else it is here.
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20070329.xml&Node=H11&Page=9
You seem to be basing your whole Fine Gael worries me thing on a report in the Irish Times. A glance at the debate would show that the desire to do something in this area is not confined to Fine Gael, indeed there is a substanial body of opinion in favour of that, but the Fine Gael measure was not deeemed the best way to proceed. As this is judged the Best Irish Political Blog, I would have presumed that as a courtesy to readers pieces would be researched and based on something more than mere reactionarism.
The amendment that you your self have showed was Fine Gael’s. Are you saying that you don’t find the above amendment worrying. You haven’t even talked about it. Just trying to divert from the issue. Deal with the issue please, which is this amendment. We don’t know how any party would go about this. If indeed they would. We only know how Fine Gael will go about it. And to me it is fecking scary.
So are you going to defend this piece of legislation John. Are just try to dodge the issue.
John, I wish Fine Gael would do some research into constitutional law instead of coming out with amendments “based on something more than mere reactionism.” No law can override the constitution. That’s it. Period. The Dáil can pass the law, and Fine Gael can have their populist “tough on crime” headlines for the upcoming election, but if the law was passed one of two things will happen: the president could refuse to sign it, deeming it unconsitutional, as Robinson did during the 1990s, or, more likely, the first time someone arrested under it who has the resources to do so, that person will challenge the law and the case will be thrown out because, well,the law is unconstitutional.
There are no good intentions with this one. Fine Gael and the PDs are trying to out-right wing each other, chasing the taxi driver’s vote.
Hard votes, not good faith, is the motive behind this one.
Ben the president can’t deem something as unconstitutional as you suggest, she can however refer to the Supreme court to test its unconstitutionality which an entirely different power.
I’m sure she’d send it to the supreme court because she thought it was hunky dory. anyway, it’s a power that this president has no intention of using – but somebody who’s charged under this bill, if passed with the amendments, certainly will take it to the supreme court. this is the worst kind of politics. Headline-grabbing amendments, puffed-up chests like it’s some Dublin-Meath game. It’s shameful.
do you know how to stop people getting off on technicalities? Recruit guards who know how to fill in fucking forms.
actually Dan, I thought you’d be at the conference today. what are you doing wasting your time with us mere reactionaries?
Someone has to man the internet in case anything of significant happens. Also I’m avoiding blame for the “for a change” visual gag as pointed out by Miriam Lord in today’s IT.
Fine Gael worry me too.
I would like a minister for justice that will create an independent police commission like that was set up in the north. And reign in the currupt police and Irish media who live up their hole to gain insider information and exclusives. The media in this country are puppets to the police.
I respect McDowell and I like the way he forced the garda reserves down their throat, but he has shamed himself by not having already got the bottom of the Terence Wheelock manslaughter/murder in garda custody. You can’t pick n choose when to have principles even when the truth is as ugly as it is.
The blue shirts give the garda extra resources and the gloves come off against criminals. The force grows more n more currupt which does more harm than good.