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	<title>Comments on: Carbon Tax is wrong</title>
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		<title>By: Error on the Green Party Site at Irish Election</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2006/09/carbon-tax-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-4527</link>
		<dc:creator>Error on the Green Party Site at Irish Election</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Nov 2006 19:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/09/carbon-tax-is-wrong/#comment-4527</guid>
		<description>[...] Just spotted someone came here from the Green Party site via a link on this page. If you search the Green Party site for &#8220;renewable sources of energy,&#8221; you get a post by me on &#8220;Why Carbon Tax is Wrong&#8221;. Funnily enough, it doesn&#8217;t link to my review of types of Alternative Energy &#8220;So What We Going To Do About Electricity?&#8221;, which would be a lot closer to Green thinking than &#8220;Why Carbon Tax is Wrong&#8221;. Why the Green Party searches outside their site, I have no idea. They would want to change that; maybe I lost them a vote  . [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Just spotted someone came here from the Green Party site via a link on this page. If you search the Green Party site for &#8220;renewable sources of energy,&#8221; you get a post by me on &#8220;Why Carbon Tax is Wrong&#8221;. Funnily enough, it doesn&#8217;t link to my review of types of Alternative Energy &#8220;So What We Going To Do About Electricity?&#8221;, which would be a lot closer to Green thinking than &#8220;Why Carbon Tax is Wrong&#8221;. Why the Green Party searches outside their site, I have no idea. They would want to change that; maybe I lost them a vote  . [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Error on the Green Parties Site at Irish Election</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2006/09/carbon-tax-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-4521</link>
		<dc:creator>Error on the Green Parties Site at Irish Election</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Nov 2006 16:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/09/carbon-tax-is-wrong/#comment-4521</guid>
		<description>[...] Just spotted someone came here from the Green Party site via a link on this page. If you search the Green Party site for &#8220;renewable sources of energy&#8221; you get a post by me on &#8220;Why Carbon Tax is Wrong&#8221;. Funnily enough it doesn&#8217;t link to my review of types of Alternative Energy So What We Going To Do About Electricity? which would be alot closer to green thinking to why carbon Tax is wrong. Why the green party searches outside their site I have no idea. They would want to change that maybe I lost them a vote  . [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Just spotted someone came here from the Green Party site via a link on this page. If you search the Green Party site for &#8220;renewable sources of energy&#8221; you get a post by me on &#8220;Why Carbon Tax is Wrong&#8221;. Funnily enough it doesn&#8217;t link to my review of types of Alternative Energy So What We Going To Do About Electricity? which would be alot closer to green thinking to why carbon Tax is wrong. Why the green party searches outside their site I have no idea. They would want to change that maybe I lost them a vote  . [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cian</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2006/09/carbon-tax-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-1975</link>
		<dc:creator>Cian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Sep 2006 23:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/09/carbon-tax-is-wrong/#comment-1975</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;also your point doesn’t answer my main point that it is the poor that would suffer the most.&lt;/i&gt;
Because i agree that consumption taxes will by nature hurt the poor. My support is notional and contingent on many factors.

I think the cost factor is deterrent in that it contributes a sense of coherency to the policy of diminishing smoking in the society. However it is not sufficient to lead to change, its policy value lies in its effect on behaviour and also that it draws in the Finance dept into the policy-motivate revenue getters and the most effective civil servants.  The worry i have is the temptation to use it as a cash cow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>also your point doesn’t answer my main point that it is the poor that would suffer the most.</i><br />
Because i agree that consumption taxes will by nature hurt the poor. My support is notional and contingent on many factors.</p>
<p>I think the cost factor is deterrent in that it contributes a sense of coherency to the policy of diminishing smoking in the society. However it is not sufficient to lead to change, its policy value lies in its effect on behaviour and also that it draws in the Finance dept into the policy-motivate revenue getters and the most effective civil servants.  The worry i have is the temptation to use it as a cash cow.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2006/09/carbon-tax-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-1974</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Sep 2006 22:33:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/09/carbon-tax-is-wrong/#comment-1974</guid>
		<description>But Cian what do you think has had a greater effect on the fall of smoking rates, the advertising, education, smoking ban (regulation) or tax. One of the most dramatic falls in recent years in smoking rates came about after the smoking ban was introduced. The various increases on excise duty has never showen to my knowledge a dip in the smoking rates in the time after a budget. 

Also look at the excise duty increases through out the years on alcohol no sign f alcohol consumption dropping. Also the rise in petrol simulates the rise in petrol caused by a carbon tax. And nothing has come of it. 

As for imoral offences . Drinving an SUV in a city can be construded as being imoral yet people pay more for them at that gas pump and at the VRT and we have never had more of them.

I think that if a carbon tax came in people would just say it was another stealth tax. 

also your point doesn&#039;t answer my main point that it is the poor that would suffer the most.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Cian what do you think has had a greater effect on the fall of smoking rates, the advertising, education, smoking ban (regulation) or tax. One of the most dramatic falls in recent years in smoking rates came about after the smoking ban was introduced. The various increases on excise duty has never showen to my knowledge a dip in the smoking rates in the time after a budget. </p>
<p>Also look at the excise duty increases through out the years on alcohol no sign f alcohol consumption dropping. Also the rise in petrol simulates the rise in petrol caused by a carbon tax. And nothing has come of it. </p>
<p>As for imoral offences . Drinving an SUV in a city can be construded as being imoral yet people pay more for them at that gas pump and at the VRT and we have never had more of them.</p>
<p>I think that if a carbon tax came in people would just say it was another stealth tax. </p>
<p>also your point doesn&#8217;t answer my main point that it is the poor that would suffer the most.</p>
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		<title>By: Cian</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2006/09/carbon-tax-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-1973</link>
		<dc:creator>Cian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Sep 2006 22:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/09/carbon-tax-is-wrong/#comment-1973</guid>
		<description>Im not sure bout some of those premises. Tax can be quite effective if the regime is tied quite clearly and publicly (i.e. long term ad campaign) to behavioural factors. Cigarette smoking is an example. Its still prevalant among a minority but its decline. 

The issue is that tax regimes of that sore give government a vested interest in maintaining a level of bad behaviour as a revenue source. That source is then legitimised by hte view of the majority that polluting is an immoral and taxable offence. 

&lt;i&gt;Regulations would have a lot greater effect at reducing carbon emissions for a far less price then a carbon tax would. The cost of the carbon tax like most taxes would not only damage the economic well being of the country but also like most taxes hit the poor hardest.&lt;/i&gt;
I think the greens would agree there but would see the carbon tax as part of a plan to jolt this &quot;carbon guzzling&quot; society out of its ways and onto the sustainable track to growth. I believe regulations would work but the most effective department in the country at carrying out policy is Finance. The tax encure maximum compliance and awareness. 

I think the point on energy security is not sufficient. there is no alternative in the transport market, its simply the efficient use of fuel versus new fuels. The efficient use of fuels implies public transport on a national basis which is delivered effectively to supportive users. The tax is intended to be a firing shot in what is likely to be the green war on cars.

I would support it as a measuer which shoehorns sustainability onto the agenda but that support stops once government switches to the above cigarette mentality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Im not sure bout some of those premises. Tax can be quite effective if the regime is tied quite clearly and publicly (i.e. long term ad campaign) to behavioural factors. Cigarette smoking is an example. Its still prevalant among a minority but its decline. </p>
<p>The issue is that tax regimes of that sore give government a vested interest in maintaining a level of bad behaviour as a revenue source. That source is then legitimised by hte view of the majority that polluting is an immoral and taxable offence. </p>
<p><i>Regulations would have a lot greater effect at reducing carbon emissions for a far less price then a carbon tax would. The cost of the carbon tax like most taxes would not only damage the economic well being of the country but also like most taxes hit the poor hardest.</i><br />
I think the greens would agree there but would see the carbon tax as part of a plan to jolt this &#8220;carbon guzzling&#8221; society out of its ways and onto the sustainable track to growth. I believe regulations would work but the most effective department in the country at carrying out policy is Finance. The tax encure maximum compliance and awareness. </p>
<p>I think the point on energy security is not sufficient. there is no alternative in the transport market, its simply the efficient use of fuel versus new fuels. The efficient use of fuels implies public transport on a national basis which is delivered effectively to supportive users. The tax is intended to be a firing shot in what is likely to be the green war on cars.</p>
<p>I would support it as a measuer which shoehorns sustainability onto the agenda but that support stops once government switches to the above cigarette mentality.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2006/09/carbon-tax-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-1944</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Sep 2006 22:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/09/carbon-tax-is-wrong/#comment-1944</guid>
		<description>Still you must admit Farting is funnier then cows mouths :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still you must admit Farting is funnier then cows mouths <img src='http://www.irishelection.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Keith Gaughan</title>
		<link>http://www.irishelection.com/2006/09/carbon-tax-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-1943</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Gaughan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Sep 2006 22:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irishelection.com/09/carbon-tax-is-wrong/#comment-1943</guid>
		<description>The BBC article isn&#039;t very good. Flatulence, whether bovine, human, or something else, consists of air and methane. The carbon dioxide content of flatulence is only slighly above that of the atmosphere, and largely inconsequential compared to CO&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt; from other sources (such as the cow&#039;s mouth). Convery&#039;s research is into producing grass varieties that cause the cows to produce less methane, and so fart less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The BBC article isn&#8217;t very good. Flatulence, whether bovine, human, or something else, consists of air and methane. The carbon dioxide content of flatulence is only slighly above that of the atmosphere, and largely inconsequential compared to CO<sub>2</sub> from other sources (such as the cow&#8217;s mouth). Convery&#8217;s research is into producing grass varieties that cause the cows to produce less methane, and so fart less.</p>
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