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Leo Varadkar - the PV Doyle of Prisons
Read more about: Crime, Dublin West, Fine Gael
Well it didn’t take long for Leo Varadkar to join the queue for the ‘Will FG just stop’ treatise that Simon has started. Having watched Dr. Varadkar from afar during some of his student days I’m not surprised. I’m only waiting for Lucinda Creighton to call for women to be charged for post abortion counselling or medical treatment.
If you missed it, it’s yesterday’s question to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform from the Dublin West TD where he asked if the Minister ‘will charge prisoners for the cost of their time in prison where prisoners can afford to meet this cost; and if he will make a statement on the matter.’
Brian Lenihan was attending a family funeral, so the Minister without a budget and lesser Lenhian took the questions.
The full exchange is posted below - note Charlie Flanagan’s rush to clarify that this question was not indicative of FG policy. Not yet anyway until Leo gets his way me thinks.
8. Deputy Leo Varadkar asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he will charge prisoners for the cost of their time in prison where prisoners can afford to meet this cost; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32962/07]
Deputy Conor Lenihan: I refer the Deputy to the answer to his Question No. 522 of 4 December 2007 where it was stated that there are no plans to implement any mechanism whereby prisoners would be expected to contribute to the overall cost of their imprisonment. There would be major practical difficulties and costs associated with trying to recover money from individuals who frequently have no visible assets or means of support. There are also a number of policy issues, for example, if prisoners have funds available to them, should claims by the Irish Prison Service compete with claims for damages by victims or the work of the Criminal Assets Bureau?
It is only fair to point out, however, that section 37 of the Prisons Act 2007 provides an appropriate statutory basis for a number of provisions in the prison rules of 2007 which allow a prison governor to charge for access to certain services over and above the standard provision to all prisoners, such as use of the video link, telephone calls and access to materials relating to current affairs such as newspapers, magazines and so on, not related to their imprisonment. The Act also allows for charges to be made to prisoners for goods or services that are not generally available or are not available on an unlimited basis. These include access to electronic devices, private medical treatment or escorts provided outside the prison for matters not related to their imprisonment.
Deputy Pat Rabbitte: Or a speed dial to Joe Duffy’s “Liveline”.
Deputy Conor Lenihan: Prisoners are provided with access to health care services on an equivalent basis to citizens in the general community who are covered by the General Medical Services, GMS, medical card. Section 37 of the Prisons Act 2007 allows for the prison rules to provide, where it is deemed necessary on the basis of non-convicted status to facilitate a prisoner with access to elective health care outside the public system, that the prisoner will be responsible for the costs associated with facilitating such provision. Provision of necessary health care to all prisoners on an equivalent basis to that provided under the public health system will continue to be funded by the State.
In addition to the escort costs that could arise in the facilitation of access to elective health care outside the public system, prisoners are charged for escorts outside of their place of detention with regard to civil proceedings against third parties. It is not proposed to charge for escorts where the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform or an individual governor is listed as a defendant or co-defendant in such proceedings. It is also proposed not to charge prisoners for appointments relating to any matters before the Residential Institutions Redress Board.
Access to certain other services in prison is provided without charge and it is not intended to begin charging for these services. For example, no charge is made for the making of a certain number of phone calls. Prisoners are entitled to a daily phone call, including calls to their legal adviser, and this will continue to be the position.
Deputy Joe Carey: I believe we should study prison conditions because the Irish prison chaplains recently produced their annual report, which pointed out that one in two inmates of St. Patrick’s Institution is illiterate. Does the Minister of State think it is right that this Government presides over a prison system that allows juvenile inmates of St. Patrick’s Institution remain illiterate on release?
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The question relates to the charging of prisoners.
Deputy Joe Carey: I am referring to prison conditions and believe the issue is relevant to this question.
Deputy Conor Lenihan: I am at a loss as to how this relates to Deputy Varadkar’s rather right wing suggestion that we should charge prisoners for their incarceration. To my mind Deputy Varadkar’s proposal is rather loathsome because I believe any person with an understanding of our prison system could easily inform him that the people incarcerated in our prisons tend to be from very poor backgrounds. I do not believe that the principle of paying for one’s punishment, which is popular in right wing circles in the
I do not believe the issues Deputy Carey rightly raised could be addressed properly in our prison system were Deputy Varadkar’s proposals to come to fruition. It is odd to hear Deputy Carey speaking out of genuine concern for prisoners in the context of his party colleague’s loathsome proposal that seeks to take money from vulnerable people in prison.
Deputy Charles Flanagan: The Minister of State has conveniently used what should have been a reply to Deputy Carey to avoid addressing Deputy Carey’s questions. The Minister of State referred to Deputy Varadkar but I should stress that the question does not reflect Fine Gael policy and appears to be the Deputy’s personal view.
Deputy Conor Lenihan: I am glad Deputy Flanagan clarified that; I have hope for him yet.
There is precedent for such a move, as France and Germany have both charged people for prison stays. In Germany it was under the 1933-45 government, and in France, the administration of 1793-4, a time more commonly known as the Reign of Terror.