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There’s no logic in laptops
Read more about: Academia, Education, Fine Gael, Manifesto
Fine Gael recently announced their “radical” proposals for the education system, putting forward a 7-part plan which they claim will future-proof our place as leaders of knowledge. Without dissecting the plan completely, one idea of their’s—and, I think, Labour’s—caught my eye: the provision of laptops to every secondary school pupil. As part of this policy, Fine Gael hope to “radically redesign course material around new technology” in order to make the laptop “the schoolbag of the future.”
Of course, like all good press releases, the Fine Gael statement on education is thin on detail, fat on buzz-words and in reading them it’s easy to be overwhelmed by the message without realising you’ve been short-changed. So, why laptops? Well, when you need answers it’s always best to return to the tried and tested formula of 5W and 1H (Who, What, Where, When, Why and How), or at least that’s what they told me in college, all the time, forever.
Given that we already know the what—laptops for school kids—the when—after the election—the who—Enda Kenny—and the where—Ireland—we’re left with just two questions that need answering.
Why?
Fine Gael is delighted to tell us of their futuristic plans, but they fail to explain why they’re needed. Sure, children need to know how to use a computer in this day and age and maybe carrying a nice laptop around would be easier on their spines than a tonne of books, but they’re hardly reason enough.
If the two reasons mentioned above are the justification for free laptops, then it is akin to opening a walnut with a sledgehammer. Why not just have a weekly basic IT class as part of the Junior Cert curriculum (and there’s not need to make it an exam subject either)? Why not just tackle the cause of heavy bags rather than burning the maps in a vain attempt to correct an error?
There’s no real advantage to basing school work on computers that I can see, if anything I can see disadvantages. What’s better about a textbook that’s on a screen than one that’s on a page? What’s better about an essay that’s typed and handed up on disc than one that’s hand written?
From a personal point of view, I think pupils will have more than enough time in life to not use a pen and paper for the rest of their lives (is that a bit romantic? Perhaps) and I have difficulty reading text on-screen for any length of time so reading text books would be a pain. Sure, there’s the potential for interactive software but that 1) already exists, 2) arguably adds nothing to their education that practical teaching doesn’t already and 3) runs the risk of spoon-feeding pupils.
This may seem a little glib, but does it not complicate the educational process to involve computers all the time? In the everyday classroom, wouldn’t the pain of start-up/shut-down sequences, viruses, malfunctions, &c., just make things even more difficult?
How?
This is the more important question, in my opinion. Even if it is shown that computer-based learning has it’s advantages, it still carries so many complications too; all which lead to cost.
According to CSO statistics, the figure for second-level students in 2003/04 (the latest year available) was 341,724. Given that the last few years has seen a steady decline in second-level numbers—and in order to make calculations a little bit easier—we’ll assume that the current figure stands at around 340,000.
Let’s say the Government bulk-buy laptops to that figure at €500/machine; that’s a grand total of €170,000,000 for the machinery. But as anyone with a computer knows, that’s not the end of it. Laptops, like all technology, can break; this means there are maintenance costs. Perhaps the Government get the machines insured against this; do you really think any broker is going to give them a low insurance rate for machines that are being used by kids, even if it is in bulk? Even at €50 a year/machine, you’re looking at an annual cost of €17m. And what about computer lifespan? Even if the machines are only replaced once every student-cycle (6 years, at which point they’d probably be ancient in technology terms) you’re still looking at huge costs on a fairly regular basis.
Another aspect of how isn’t based in cost, but in practicality. Will the children own the laptop, or will it be effectively “on loan” from the school? Will they be allowed to take theirs home and if not, how will those without a family computer get work done? If they can, what about damage done outside of school time? Who’d pay for that? What if it’s stolen or broken; does that mean they’ve lost the year’s work?
Call me old fashioned, but I don’t see what advantage there is to having a laptop instead of a copy book, all I see are potential problems that you just don’t get with a pen and paper. There’s nothing wrong with writing, just like there’s nothing wrong with ticking a box on a piece of paper to vote. Everyone here got through school without a laptop on hand and didn’t suffer as a result. Some even got through without any kind of internet access—no Wikipedia?!—and they’re none the worse for it. Sure, there’s plenty that needs to be done to our education system in order to improve it, but not this.
If anything I think Enda Kenny is suffering from the same illness as Bertie was when he spoke about e-voting recently. Does Kenny think we’re becoming the laughing stock of Europe with our silly little pens and silly little copy books?
Interesting points. Also interesting calculating of the cost. But I will have to think about the rest.
My eyes get tired very quickly from reading an ebook compared to the joys of reading a real, physical book. Have they done any health studies? I read somewhere that retention is bad when reading off a monitor compared to reading a real book. Am I correct?
“Everyone here got through school without a laptop on hand and didn’t suffer as a result. Some even got through without any kind of internet access (no wikipedia?!!!) and they’re none the worse for it.”
Ah come on Adam - you’re better than resorting to that sort of dismissive writing! If we took that attitude, we wouldn’t use writing or textbooks in schools.
I’m quite open to this idea - even if they’re used alongside textbooks and pens & paper. I can’t remember the last time I handwrote anything for any job I’ve had since leaving school. At this stage, the kids who have access to computers at home have a distinct empirical advantage because they’re getting higher marks for their better presented homework (there was a study on that cited in the Indo & Times, but I can’t find it right now). There’s a social side effect to this which is putting a computer in every home with children, regardless of social status or income. I think that goal probably overrules any misgivings I could have about the educational benefits.
Ah come on Adam - you’re better than resorting to that sort of dismissive writing! If we took that attitude, we wouldn’t use writing or textbooks in schools.
That does read as somewhat dismissive, doesn’t it?
I’m not suggesting that advances like computers and the internet aren’t useful tools in education, I just fail to see how giving everyone a laptop will add anything to their time in school (especially when held up against the costs - and just to be clear on that, I think any cost is justified if is shows real benefits to education, but this doesn’t).
I’m quite open to this idea - even if they’re used alongside textbooks and pens & paper. I can’t remember the last time I handwrote anything for any job I’ve had since leaving school.
I’d largely be the same, but it’s still a vital tool to have for every aspect of life and I don’t see why it should be jetisoned after a few years of it in pre-primary and primary education… There are plenty of aspects of secondary education that people don’t use much afterwards (maths, geography, foreign languages, Irish, science, history, religion) but I wouldn’t want to see them dropped in any way, shape or form (reformed, perhaps, not dropped).
and yet At this stage, the kids who have access to computers at home have a distinct empirical advantage because they’re getting higher marks for their better presented homework (there was a study on that cited in the Indo & Times, but I can’t find it right now).
Firstly when I was in secondary I never handed anything up typed and I don’t recall anyone else ever doing it… secondly if kids are getting extra marks for the way they present school work (ie typed), what good is that to them in the long run? The JC/LC exam doesn’t involve any of that and it’s arguable that those in the practice of writing would have the advantage… finally the advantages of having a computer are not as black and white as the haves and have-nots… If Fine Gael wanted to address the imbalance you mention they’d suggest a computer grant for low-income families and they’d offer to solve the Broadband/Internet access issues in the country… After all, even if a poorer child has a laptop which they can take home they’re still at a disadvantage to the better off one who can afford broadband access (not to mention the bias that would exist between urban and rural pupils).
There’s a social side effect to this which is putting a computer in every home with children, regardless of social status or income. I think that goal probably overrules any misgivings I could have about the educational benefits.
But giving a laptop to a child isn’t solving that problem; I’d support any reasonable proposal to improve PC penetration in Ireland, but this isn’t it (I’d probably support a grant system, suggest that it was aimed at the whole family/household and not one member of it and would also like to note that laptops are pound-for-pound more expensive than desktops anyway).
Firstly to knock the cost idea - try the One Laptop per Child (OLPC project) less than a hundred dollars per laptop which includes a decent enough processor, wifi, dvd and color screen. Then mix in something like the concept of Open-source textbooks via Creative Commons or the more immediately available MIT OpenCourseWare which is currently offering 1400 courses online from architecture to engineer to media and arts. This project offers the courses including syllabi, readings, assignments/test, lecture notes and also recordings of the lectures. Moodle is another option as they offer “a free, Open Source software package designed using sound pedagogical principles, to help educators create effective online learning communities.” which could be availed of in a structured fashion by the Department of Education.
Grants and penetration of broadband need to be considered but for a first pitch of this idea, I think Kenny should be commended. There may be realisation issues with what could be one of the most enlighten approaches to dealing with both the digital divide and illiteracy in low income families and I agree they should be further investigated but I seem to remember that when Kennedy wanted to take the US to the moon, he put down a ten year plan from that first brave speech and I think Kenny has that plan but is saving it for when he gets into power.
“we’ll assume that the current figure stands at around 340,000.
Let’s say the Government bulk-buy laptops to that figure at €500/machine; that’s a grand total of €170,000,000 for the machinery.”
Sorry, one more “nit to pick”
You’d only be buying computers for one year’s worth of kids each time. So, you’d realistically have a rolling cost of 56,000 laptops per annum, at something in the region of €28m. By the end of six years, you’d have every kid in every secondary school with a laptop. As the sixth years leave school, their laptops have depreciated to a value of 0. You buy a new set of laptops for the incoming 1st years.
I don’t think this is the be all and end all of education solutions, but I think it’s something that should be done (and I’m not a Blueshirt, btw).
You’d only be buying computers for one year’s worth of kids each time. So, you’d realistically have a rolling cost of 56,000 laptops per annum, at something in the region of €28m. By the end of six years, you’d have every kid in every secondary school with a laptop. As the sixth years leave school, their laptops have depreciated to a value of 0. You buy a new set of laptops for the incoming 1st years.
I don’t think this is the be all and end all of education solutions, but I think it’s something that should be done (and I’m not a Blueshirt, btw).
But that’s still €28m being spent a year (before insurance, maintenance etc.) to replace copy books with laptops for no reason.
As I said, no cost is too high when it benefits the education system, but I just cannot see any benefit at all here.
I think the laptop idea is a microcosm of why Fine Gael are in trouble in recent polls. They are throwing out ill conceived ideas because they simply don’t have the depth of quality in their parliamentary pool to establish a credible frontbench. The poor performance in recent elections has bled the party of experienced people (some being voted out, some having retired).
I was surprised when I heard Olwyn Enright on the radio as their education spokesperson. I understood she had been dropped from the frontbench in a reshuffle some time ago because she was out of her depth. From the interview she has not improved with age. She was throwing out broad ideas about how the Irish education system could be improved but could not answer any question on implementation, funding or unions. If I hadn’t heard it was Olwyn at the start of the interview I would have thought I was listening to an immature budget submission from the so called Union of Secondary Students of Ireland.
Enright has no real chance of a ministerial position in any rainbow government after the next election. The share out of cabinet seats across 3-4 parties means that a strong cabinet could be assembled but individually no one party in the rainbow has a full set. For that matter neither do Fianna Fail or the PDs. Eamonn O’Cuiv is a prime example of the lack of real depth on that side of the house. However Fine Gael are looking to their leadership in 20 years and expect that young guns like Olwyn will mature over time. In this they have to be complemented but it does little for their election prospects in 2007.
If the Rainbow got together and presented an alternative cabinet of shadow ministers made up of those who are likely to actually hold the position after June 2007 then they would appeal far more to the voter. When it comes to the hard decisions holding the ballot paper no one would vote for a government that had Enright as Minister for their children’s future.
I reflection I have to think it is a good idea. In this day and age every student should be computer literate. When I was at school we had very few computer classes. By giving students laptops they will learn for themselves many of them indeed will start dabbling with computer programming web page design etc etc. And really it is not that expensive.
I agree completely with cf on the issue of why FG are failing so badly in the polls recently. “Ill-concieved ideas” is right, seems they need to reshuffle they’re policy makers!
On the issue of this laptop idea, it is completely unrealistic. FG are trying to make themselves sound good to the parents of children who will be heading into secondary school in the next 3 or so years. As I’m sure most people who read this site will have a little bit of technical knowledge, I will simply use one word to show a flaw in their plan: obsolete. Do FG intend to replace the laptops every 5 years? Pay for security/virus protection updates? Do they really think it will be safe to have 12/13 year olds walking to and from school with €500 laptops? Does not sound like a safe idea to me.
FG would have been much better off if they sat down and looked at the reality of before throwing out ridiculous ideas like this, which will never materialise. Perhaps a plan to provide each school with ten laptops for use in classrooms is more realistic than to provide a laptop for every secondary student.
While we’re on the topic of FG is there any truth to the rumour that Mariead McGuinness might run against her party colleague, and FG stalwart, Fergus O’Dowd in the next election?
I agree completely with cf on the issue of why FG are failing so badly in the polls recently. “Ill-concieved ideas” is right, seems they need to reshuffle they’re policy makers!
On the issue of this laptop idea, it is completely unrealistic. FG are trying to make themselves sound good to the parents of children who will be heading into secondary school in the next 3 or so years. As I’m sure most people who read this site will have a little bit of technical knowledge, I will simply use one word to show a flaw in their plan: obsolete. Do FG intend to replace the laptops every 5 years? Pay for security/virus protection updates? Do they really think it will be safe to have 12/13 year olds walking to and from school with €500 laptops? Does not sound like a safe idea to me.
FG would have been much better off if they sat down and looked at the reality before throwing out ridiculous ideas which will never materialise. Perhaps a plan to provide each school with ten laptops for use in classrooms would have recieved a better reponse, and is definately more realistic than to provide a laptop for every secondary student.
While we’re on the topic of FG is there any truth to the rumour that Mariead McGuinness might run against her party colleague, and FG stalwart, Fergus O’Dowd in the next election?
Think this one got eaten by the system
Firstly to knock the cost idea and to agree with Keith’s comment that ‘You’d only be buying computers for one year’s worth of kids each time’. They could try the One Laptop per Child (OLPC project) less than a hundred dollars per laptop which includes a decent enough processor, wifi, dvd and color screen. Then mix in something like the concept of Open-source textbooks via Creative Commons or the more immediately available MIT OpenCourseWare which is currently offering 1400 courses online from architecture to engineer to media and arts. This project offers the courses including syllabi, readings, assignments/test, lecture notes and also recordings of the lectures. Moodle is another option as they offer “a free, Open Source software package designed using sound pedagogical principles, to help educators create effective online learning communities.” which could be availed of in a structured fashion by the Department of Education.
Grants and penetration of broadband need to be considered but for a first pitch of this idea, I think Kenny should be commended. There may be realisation issues with what could be one of the most enlighten approaches to dealing with both the digital divide and illiteracy in low income families and I agree they should be further investigated but I seem to remember that when Kennedy wanted to take the US to the moon, he put down a ten year plan from that first brave speech and I think Kenny has that plan but is saving it for when he gets into power.
When it gotten eaten previously, it also ate the hyperlinks so here they are:
One Laptop per Child
MIT OpenCourseWare
Moodle
Forgot hyperlinks so here they are:
One Laptop per Child
MIT OpenCourseWare
Moodle
I reflection I have to think it is a good idea. In this day and age every student should be computer literate. When I was at school we had very few computer classes. By giving students laptops they will learn for themselves many of them indeed will start dabbling with computer programming web page design etc etc. And really it is not that expensive.
Throwing a laptop at a group of kids and hoping they pick up the skills they need/want isn’t really education is it? Maybe it’s not a fair comparison, but handing an illiterate child a book won’t teach them the skill they need, and handing me a french/english dictionary won’t make me fluent.
Many kids would be able to pick up the skills they need, but they’d miss so much more without the right education anyway. I’m self thought on the computer and I can generally do whatever I need to do and solve the odd minor issue that crops up… but when I had to do a word processing course in college I suddenly found out all these wierd and wonderful tools that apps like Word had that I’d never have discovered on my own.
I agree that children need to be computer literate and I’d be happy to see a JC/LC course that covers computer skills from basic all the way up to advanced, but that can be done by giving a school adequate computer hardware, creating a proper course and not just handing out computers in a vein attempt to educate…
Throwing a laptop at a group of kids and hoping they pick up the skills they need/want isn’t really education is it? Maybe it’s not a fair comparison, but handing an illiterate child a book won’t teach them the skill they need, and handing me a french/english dictionary won’t make me fluent.
You are not a nerd are you
I learned most of what I know in computing through self thought. Why do you think most kids can program dvd players while their parents can’t. They just self teach themsleves through trial and errer. Mavis Beakon does not teach computer skills. People learn from doing.
By the way braz sorry fr the commments getting cought. the spam filter flaqs stuff with lots of links sorry. they are back now
You are not a nerd are you
I learned most of what I know in computing through self thought. Why do you think most kids can program dvd players while their parents can’t. They just self teach themsleves through trial and errer. Mavis Beakon does not teach computer skills. People learn from doing.
As I said, I learned pretty much everything I know through self-thought, but you can’t expect the majority to fully utilise the computer (especially not in the area of programming) by learning it all themselves… some people will, but most won’t.
I’d bet that if you went on a course in any programme you thought yourself to use you’d either learn a few extra things about it that you’d never noticed (and that come in handy) or you’d find a better way of doing something you were already doing.
If you want to make students computer literate then make Computer Studies a subject on the Leaving Cert and invest the money from the Olwyn’s laptops in properly equipped computer rooms and training teachers to teach the new subject.
I know the old argument against putting IT on the leaving cert is that it gives an unfair advantage to the richer schools who can afford the equipment and teachers. Well my school didn’t have a Latin or Greek teacher and it didn’t stop these subjects being examined in the Leaving Cert. We did however have fantastic IT facilities, sponsored by a local business, and each non-exam year had at least 2 hours of computer classes per week.
Leaving aside the issue of cost Fine Gael have failed to answer any questions about issues such as maintenance, theft and damage.
- If the hard disk crashes on a laptop will the student have to sit out classes until it gets repaired? My work laptop crashed recently and it took a week to be repaired and that’s with a dedicated IT department downstairs. For that matter the average life expectancy of laptop seems to be 2 years of being dragged around hotels and airports before it encounters a fatal breakdown.
- It’s one thing to use your book filled backpack as a makeshift goalpost at lunch but what happens when the chubby goalkeeper falls on your laptop.
- If a student repeatedly has his laptop “stolen” will the department replace it every time or will there be a limit on the number of times they can sell a cheap laptop to their older brother’s university classmates. And of course there will be many genuine cases of theft. At the moment drug addicts have no real interest in mugging school kids for a copy of King Lear. But put a €1000 laptop in every school bag and they’ll gather at the school gates like triffids.
Finally if civil servants under Martin Cullen couldn’t buy a couple of thousand computers to count votes do people really think the same bunch of civil servants under Olwyn Enright can buy 360,000 working laptops or will the contract go to the cheapest bidder.
I think some of the folks here are running about the place arguing 3 and 4 things at once. First off where are you getting the €500 or cf and his fun €1000 version?
Fact is that if you want to extend real IT and technical skills then you need to give kids more than 1/2 hours of an IT class. As for being obsolete, that only happens if you’re trying to play keep up. I have a desktop, 9 years old windows 98, and the word processer and so on still works fine. As for mainteance, well, there is the storage of data and then Ghost for replacing the system. And don’t we employ teachers for the IT classes we have now, can’t they run Ghost onto a few machines? And I don’t think that FG are suggesting that kids stop writing. It is strangely bizzare to hear looking for exact costings and a detailed 5 implementation plan and then turn about and defend the government and Transport 21 which is as detailed as my sleep plans when I truly hammered at a party at a friend’s house. I may sleep I may not, I’m not sure for how long, or where, or who else may be involved. but it could happen.
First off where are you getting the €500 or cf and his fun €1000 version?
My figure is, naturally, a guestimate of the cost; the $100 laptops could possibly be used, but again the issue of lifespan comes into play.
Fact is that if you want to extend real IT and technical skills then you need to give kids more than 1/2 hours of an IT class.
OK; so let’s have it then.
As for being obsolete, that only happens if you’re trying to play keep up. I have a desktop, 9 years old windows 98, and the word processer and so on still works fine. As for mainteance, well, there is the storage of data and then Ghost for replacing the system. And don’t we employ teachers for the IT classes we have now, can’t they run Ghost onto a few machines?
The hardware on laptops tends to have a shorter lifespan than desktops do; forgetting about software upgrades, it’s the hardware that might need to be looked at… naturally that’d decline over time (without factoring in the succession issues from newer machines). I know the PC I’m using now doesn’t run nearly as well as it used to, even though I’ve formatted it regularly etc.
As for backing up, the students would need to take care of that and it would need to be done regularly.
And I don’t think that FG are suggesting that kids stop writing.
Why would they bring computers into the mix as a permanent fixture if they were going to continue to teach in texbook and copybook format? Of course the kids would still write, but it wouldn’t be to a fraction of what they do now.
It is strangely bizzare to hear looking for exact costings and a detailed 5 implementation plan and then turn about and defend the government and Transport 21 which is as detailed as my sleep plans when I truly hammered at a party at a friend’s house. I may sleep I may not, I’m not sure for how long, or where, or who else may be involved. but it could happen.
Huh? Who’s asking for detailed figures and who’s defending the Government?
I was putting forward some rough guesses in regards this proposal and I’d be happy to see FG show their deeper thoughts; I’m just expressing opposition based on what they’ve told us already.
Daniel. If you want an entry level laptop you have to pay €1000 for anything half reasonable. Of course if you want to buy crap from the cheapest bidder (as stipulated by EU tendering rules) then you could get something made by Borat’s sister for a couple of hundred euro. Of course it won’t turn on but then again the plan only listed giving laptops to every child so I suppose there is no requirement for them to work.
And I’m so relieved to hear Ghost is the answer to all IT problems and it allows a couple of IT literate people to deal with all IT problems for an organisation of up to 1000 people. I’ll just pop downstairs and tell the IT manager that he and his 10 person staff are a waste of money and they are being replaced by Ghost and a recently qualified teacher who can’t get a job so should be available cheap. If I give them their notice today I’ll have them fired before Christmas and the FY end. I’ll get a big bonus for cost savings and a feature spot in the next Dilbert newsletter.
No one is suggesting FG want children to stop working just that their constant stream of half baked ideas is doing them electoral damage. No one is defending the government just saying that this idea is even more stupid than some of the stuff the current government has done.
Adam, I just had a gander at lenovo and they would give ya a laptop for 600 yo-yos. I would imagine that if you were ordering 60,000 of them or perhaps even more that you’d get a good discount.
Remember it isn’t high end graphics we’re taking about here. Also, my laptop is five years old and it still does it’s job and I only recently upgraded it to XP.
And how much do school books cost per year just out of the interest? I seem to remember them being a few hundred quid, and as been outlined elsewhere many books today are coursework meaing you aren’t allowed to get secondhand versions.
cf, tell ya what you go ahead and tell your management that. After all, you don’t seem to be able to tell the difference between an office and a school. Ghost or something like it will do people, in this case secondary school kids, fine if they are supposed to have a standard setup that isn’t changing from one end of the year to the other. As for hardware maintenacen, it’s not like you need an IT qualifaction to assembly a laptop.
The issue of security about bringing the laptops home and into school is the only reasonable practical objection I’ve heard so far.
Adam, I just had a gander at lenovo and they would give ya a laptop for 600 yo-yos. I would imagine that if you were ordering 60,000 of them or perhaps even more that you’d get a good discount.
There’s only so far a manufacturer would be willing to discount to; there’s every chance that my guestimate was off (because I don’t know the costs of a worthwhile machine, just how much they tend to sell for) but I don’t forsee it being off my too much.
Remember it isn’t high end graphics we’re taking about here. Also, my laptop is five years old and it still does it’s job and I only recently upgraded it to XP.
There’s more to a solid working computer than graphics; an average processor and amount of ram can quickly become outdated as newer, more demanding programmes surface. The likes of Photoshop being an example (and I’m sure there are other CAD equivalents for word/metal work etc.)
As for your own laptop, glad to hear it’s still working, my experience with them hasn’t been nearly as good
And how much do school books cost per year just out of the interest? I seem to remember them being a few hundred quid, and as been outlined elsewhere many books today are coursework meaing you aren’t allowed to get secondhand versions.
You don’t think the same issues would arise with software? There are plenty of digital textbooks available online but you can bet they often wouldn’t be used or useful (as they’re not made for the Irish curriculum).
And then there’s the issue of regular application-based software for design etc.
The way I’m seeing it there’s no real game-plan here and no real reason for bringing laptops in besides to throw money around. The education system needs to be worked on from the ground-up… it doesn’t need a sugar coating like this.
What advantages do you see to having laptops in the school? Children do need to learn how to use a computer, but they can reach that goal in other ways; what does this add to the education system that can’t be reached in more productive/simpler ways?
Adam ,you’re still focusing on updating the machine whenever something new comes out. My advice on that would be simply don’t. As for the price the lenovo price would be inclusive an MS OS which we can ditch. You’r price was €500, my estimate is more like €300 or perhaps €250 per machine which would be 15million for 60,000 machines. If we go for open source applications then the price of those is much less. We’ve reached a point of sophistication in many applications that would be perfect for the school audience without needing to pay high prices for bells and whistles. If someone has Office 2000 and it does what it needs to do then what is the compelling reason to upgrade to XP or whatever the Vista version is going to be called? There isn’t a reason in the case of schools.
You suggest there are other ways for children to learn about computers, what are they? And we’re talking about real computer literacy here not simply launching a word processor and knowing how to type. And I’m not ignoring the problems with prefabs or lack of science lab equipment, or resource teachers or any number of things. This does not have to be an either/or scenario. This proposal has its own merits. Taking one example course work on a PC is much more easily configured for different learning abilties allowing the student to learn at a more appropriate level. A book is static, the PC version can be more fluid.
Adam ,you’re still focusing on updating the machine whenever something new comes out. My advice on that would be simply don’t. As for the price the lenovo price would be inclusive an MS OS which we can ditch. You’r price was €500, my estimate is more like €300 or perhaps €250 per machine which would be 15million for 60,000 machines. If we go for open source applications then the price of those is much less. We’ve reached a point of sophistication in many applications that would be perfect for the school audience without needing to pay high prices for bells and whistles. If someone has Office 2000 and it does what it needs to do then what is the compelling reason to upgrade to XP or whatever the Vista version is going to be called? There isn’t a reason in the case of schools.
No, I’m not… I’m talking about curriculum software (e-textbooks if you will). What makes you think they won’t have to be bought for considerable prices every year? And as I said, free textbooks available online wouldn’t be suitable; most school books are written for a specific curriculum, the curriculum is not designed against what’s already available (the point being that what’s already available would have to be reworked for the Irish system and it wouldn’t be done for free IMO).
Also licences for certain software is quite expensive (not operating software, app. software) and while there are plenty of good Open Source equivalents (like Open Office) the more complex software like, as I cited earlier, photoshop doesn’t have a good equivalent.
You suggest there are other ways for children to learn about computers, what are they? And we’re talking about real computer literacy here not simply launching a word processor and knowing how to type. And I’m not ignoring the problems with prefabs or lack of science lab equipment, or resource teachers or any number of things. This does not have to be an either/or scenario.
If the money suggested for laptop purchases/maintenance is put into buying a smaller number of desktops (which are cheaper anyway) for schools an IT subject could be created… thought over 3-5 years it certainly wouldn’t just be teaching the kids how to type or use word… with 1-2 hours a week they’d have a superb understanding of advanced computer skills by the time they graduated.
This proposal has its own merits. Taking one example course work on a PC is much more easily configured for different learning abilties allowing the student to learn at a more appropriate level. A book is static, the PC version can be more fluid.
If you mean that a computer can be configured for people with visual/aural impairments, fair enough, but I’m not sure how it can help kids who need more time/attention to learn than others more than a textbook and a good teacher can.
What do they need photoshop for?
Photoshop is one example which could theoretically have many applications; art for one (as a lead into design, and given that it’s not uncommon to create art on a computer).
I’m sure there are even lesser known (and more expensive) pieces of software that exist for tech drawing, woodwork, metalwork etc.
Just on the thing re the cost of OS and Office software. I absolutely, positively, guarantee you that if you go to Microsoft with the proposal, they’ll give you any piece of software you like for free forever. They might even chip in for the laptops.
Daniel. The reason the laptop is cheap is because it is obsolete and you are basically buying equipment that has already been written off under the inventory reserves. It will not run the latest versions of any high end software. They may well be willing to sell it for €300 but believe me they are still getting the better end of the deal as they have offloaded their problems and gotten paid for it.
Also you are wrong when you claim that the problems faced in schools and offices are not the same. Ghost will only work if you assume the problem with the laptop is due to the user installing unauthorised software or messing with the settings. If the hard disk or other hardware crashes Ghost is useless (which is a regular occurrence on laptops sold by the cheapest vendor looking to offload their old stock). If you put 1000 laptops into an organisation (and many schools have that number of students) then it will be a full time job for at least 5 people just to maintain them and run the network.
cf, lenovo are hardly a bottom feeder vendor and their price to the consumer would be €600. That is significantly less than your quote of €1000, and I’m sure a bult discount would be sorted. And again you’re looking to run high end software. Why?
If the hardware crashes, swap it out and fix it offline. If it is defective then get it replaced under the warranty that was arranged with the purchase. And make that there is an extension to the warranty that if over x% of the harward fails then the final payments don’t come through and you go elsewhere with the next batch. With a large order like this the state should and indeed must play hardball with the vendors available.