Irish Election are pleased to announce our collection of Irish 
Bulgarians and Romanians staying put
Read more about: Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Immigration, Labour Party
Workers from Romania and Bulgaria will still have to apply for work permits in Ireland even after their countries join the European Union on 1 January next year. The announcement was made this afternoon by Micheál Martin, Minister for Enterprise, Trade & Employment, who said they would be given preference over nationals from outside the European Economic Area (EEA).
So what do people think? Labour is moving very much to the right on this issue (Severe restrictions must be imposed on labour market access for Bulgaria & Romania), while Fine Gael is using the ultimate cop-out: that we had to do it because of the common travel area. Feck them, do you think the Brits ever say “we have to do something because the Irish did it”? No, of course not, we are a separate country. Well, to me we are, but maybe not to Gay Mitchell.
But is it right that we stop people coming in considering the number of people that we have taken in? Should we be more interested in integrating the people we have rather than just adding more and more people? Is this just a government cop out? Are they giving up on the principles they had in 2004 by caving into populist restrictive measures? Or is migration causing a moderation of wage increases hitting the poorest in society?
Discuss.
Simon, I think the government had to do it. First of all, I wouldn’t downgrade the common travel area problem; the whole principle of a single border check being sufficient to enter anywhere in Britain or Ireland would have been seriously undermined if there were different work restrictions in the UK and the Republic. But I agree with all your other points. Right now the immigration is heavily low skilled and is increasing the competition for low skilled jobs. Look at it this way — would there be the same consensus among the wealthier classes in favour of immigration if it involved immigration of lawyers, doctors, managers, dentists, and, God forbid, journalists!
One other thing — huge loophole in the UK law. Anyone who is “self-employed” can work.
feck em all, coming here taking our jobs.
@ P O’Neill; I don’t think that’s UK law, I think that’s general EU law; probably something to do with the services directive or something.
Anyway, no surprise on two counts; one is that it’s election time and it’s easier to agree with people opposed to immigration than to explain how we’d be in the shitter without it, second reason is that the UK has announced plans to impose restrictions and given our free movement agreement with them it would be impossible for us to be more liberalised… in other words it’s London dictating our policy instead of Brussels or anyone else IMO. Going against UK policy would have led to serious issues on free movement between the two countries and wouldn’t be simply solved by amending the agreement, given the situation with part of the UK existing on the same island as us.
Oh and let’s not forget the point no-one likes to mention; Romanians and Bulgarians are free to come here in any numbers they please, they just can’t take legal jobs (which pay taxes, contribute to the economy and population etc.)
from the Labour link - “I have consistently argued that the poor labour market regulation in this country means that large scale in-migration has given rise to exploitation of migrant workers, displacement, and lower wages for some Irish workers.”
If this is true then why not campaign against exploitation by businesses rather than blaming immigrants? Another Labour policy made by market research and focus groups. When will labour realise that people who don’t like immigration are not going to vote for them anyway. Lets go on a property buying spree in Bulgaria and Romania, driving up house prices while restricting their access to come here. Great
Another Labour policy made by market research and focus groups.
and which has very little evidence to support it. All the evidence shows that wages for Irish and non-irish have gone up in the last few years. And when numourous people on TV and Newspaper have produced evidence that it is not happening Pat says I know better then the evidence.
Some numbers here.
http://dossing.blogspot.com/2006/01/immigration-myth.html
http://dossing.blogspot.com/2006/01/does-rabbitte-go-around-sun.html
When will labour realise that people who don’t like immigration are not going to vote for them anyway.
I don’t know that demographic is not well served by political parties. In a survey a few months back the PD supports were the most in favour of having no work permits. So maybe Labour are thinking there is votes in them anti-migration hills and that they might as well go get them.
I think it is a good idea, studies have already shown that the majority of workers from both Romania and Bulgaria tend to be even less skilled than the already low-skilled migrants which we recieve here. Without some sort of restrictions this country would have become a free for all for migrant workers. Between the migrants already here spreading the news of employers who happily pay cash in hand and only hire foreign workers and the new migrants just flooding in, the new policy is the best thing possible.
If immigration into this country is allowed to continue at the rate it is we will have an American styled problem on our hands, exclusively racial enclaves will spring up. As for the rise in racism, I blame the goverment policies(or lack of) for the last ten years. If immigration was controlled to tighter guidelines we would not have the problems which we can now see surfacing in our society.
Will this move by the Government be the concluding chapter in the book “Irish Housing market -Boom to Bust”.
Con, a bit of supporting evidence to your assertions would be great.
This will be down to an incoherent integration policy and a lack of willingness by local communities to help those who have moved into their area (wherever they may be from, be they Irish or not) to become part of the community. You get enclaves when people don’t mix. This problem is intimately related to the breakdown of communities in general.
But who has to do the mixing us or them. Or both is it a case we open the communities door and they have to be willing to what is needed to walk through it. Anyway that is a different debate.
This is the right decision but the govt must find a way to address the “self-employed” loophole, which is likely to apply for All-EU states regardless of what restrictions they impose due to the Accession Treaties. These countries are not ready for EU membership. They make our corruption look like a picnic in comparison. Organised crime is unpunished and people-trafficking through and from these countries is rampant. 400,000 Moldovans - 10% of the Moldova’s population - has already applied for Romanian citizenship in the hope of travelling West. Meanwhile Bulgaria is handing out Bulgarian passports to Macedonians and Serbs. They need a word in their ears over this. No more Enlargement. The people of the EU don’t want it, as shown by polls. It is placing intolerable population-pressures on the health-service and on schools.
In Cavan in recent years, there was a case of exploitation where Latvian fruit-pickers were paid under the minimum-wage. The employer used the excuse that they were self-employed and therefore the minimum-wage did not apply. I have grave concerns that this will become rampant now with Romanians and Bulgarians as they try to dodge our restrictions. We need vigorous and stringest enforcement of the mechanisms against exploitation and displacement agreed in Towards 2016.
All of us, Simon, immigrant or citizen.
“while Fine Gael is using the ultimate cop-out: that we had to do it because of the common travel area. ”
If the Common Travel Area is to be preserved, we had to make that decision. It is basic common sense, and applies equally to the ID card debate. To categorise it as a cop out is a bit unfair, and lacking in appreciation for how the common travel area works.
“If the Common Travel Area is to be preserved, we had to make that decision.”
Utterly false. Sweden’s CTA with the rest of the Schengen states wasn’t affected by their decision to let the 2004 accession nationals in. The CTA has to do with freedom of movement, which applies across the board to all EU nationals, including the Romanians and Bulgarians from next year. The ability, or not, to work without a permit has nothing to do with it.
There was never any real question that the Irish Government was going to make this decision. It was dictated entirely by public fears, most of which are falsely premised. A shameful but entirely predictable populist sop.
I was under the impression that there were a number of key differences between the CTA and Schengen, in particular with regard to the fact the CTA is not actually a formal agreement whereas Schengen is?
I’m sure there are differences, but none of them have any relevance to this issue. The Bulgarians and Romanians as of 1 January will have the right to travel anywhere within the EU. That’s European law. Member states can limit their right to work, but they can’t limit their right to enter or even to settle in the country. So it makes no difference to any common travel areas within the EU whether one country grants them the right to work or not.
The point is that an agreement like Schengen is set in stone, and has fairly strong institutions behind it. The CTA doesn’t have any of that, and is based on little more than goodwill in both the Dublin and London parliaments. If there was a preception that the black economy in the UK was being flooded by labour, through Ireland, it could have negative effects for the CTA in a UK which is increasingly concerned about immigration.
Why would it be flooded by Romanian and Bulgarian labour through Ireland, when Romanians and Bulgarians could just as easily (and legally) enter Britain directly?