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Scare Tactics
Read more about: Lisbon Treaty
Is it just me or is the main technique used by the yes campaign scare tactics. You would expect it from the no but if this is such worthwhile treaty shouldn’t it be argued on the merits of the treaty? Should the yes campaign be resorting to the Ireland will be doomed argument. People don’t like to be pushed into corners, Irish people don’t like to be told how they should vote. It seems to me with comments such as From RTE
French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner has warned that Ireland would pay a high price if it rejects the Lisbon Treaty in the referendum this week.
Mr Kouchner said a ‘No’ vote from the Irish would be greeted with ‘gigantic incomprehension’ from the rest of Europe.
He said: ‘The first victims would be the Irish. They have benefited more than others.
Victims? Looking at the definition in the dictionary.
a person or animal subjected to death, suffering, ill-treatment or trickery
So if we are to vote no we we are going to be subjected to something? That the consequences will not just be a back to the drawing board but the EU purposely going out of its way to hurt Ireland? And they wonder why they are down in the polls? This kind of rhetoric is just what the no side want. Dear god these people are imbiciles.
I doubt anyone from FF, FG or Lab asked this guy for his opinion but this is the worst possible way to try and get people to vote ‘yes’.
This reads like a veiled threat and voters never respond well to being threatened - especially not when it’s coming from someone from another country.
Funny that the No side accuse the Yes side of scare tactics. I have never witnessed such attempts to scare and bully the electorate as the no side have engaged in.
BTW has anyone noticed http://www.eiregobrach.ie ? This is truly crazy. I was handed a leaflet of their’s at Connolly Station at the weekend. Really scary people.
Simon, to suggest that this guy is part of the Yes campaign is about as sensible as suggesting that we should take on board the views of Jean Marie Le Pen as being representative of the No side.
In the last few days of most campaigns the emphasis is on getting your vote out and placing last minutes doubts in minds of those likely to vote for your opposition.
Some elements within the No side have used nothing but scare tactics the whole through and some Yes campaigners have treated none of the arguments on the No side with even a modicum of respect. I think it is quite easy to point out individuals and organisations on both sides that have avoided any positive engagement through. The question is if the people chose to listen to them over the others who have made positive efforts to debate the actual content and detail what does that say about the electorate?
I agree with Dan. Kouchner is not part of the Yes camp.
And there is no comparison between the outrageous statements of elements in the No camp - on tax, on abortion, on gay marriage, on defence - and the suggestion that Ireland will suffer if the treaty is rejected.
Ireland _will_ suffer if Lisbon is rejected. It will suffer for a period of time at least because our political capital account in Brussels will be reset. We can cry about it, we can whinge about democracy, but we will damage our ability to pull favours in any immediate discussions in the EU. All people I have heard with experience in EU negotiations or deal making say that building alliances, trust and diplomacy count for far more than voting weights which are rarely used.
But what about the French and Dutch? The French government has ratified Lisbon and the Dutch have yet to put it through ratification. But in essence, Lisbon, which is plan B, has not yet been rejected elsewhere. The political momentum is behind this integration project still and if Ireland stops it, it will not be a nice time in Europe for our diplomats, ministers, and representatives. That is the reality, not scare mongering.
But there is no place in the No camp for political reality. The bulk of the No camp, in all its various and ugly guises, is about as far from political reality as one can get.
But what about the French and Dutch? The French government has ratified Lisbon and the Dutch have yet to put it through ratification. But in essence, Lisbon, which is plan B, has not yet been rejected elsewhere. The political momentum is behind this integration project still and if Ireland stops it, it will not be a nice time in Europe for our diplomats, ministers, and representatives. That is the reality, not scare mongering.
That is nothing but speculation given that it hasn’t happened yet. Between the time the french rejected the constitution and ratified the lisbon treaty, they did not suffer. The british and danes have been able to negotiate opt outs, one that can be seen on the ground, from previous treaties and have not suffered. To claim that we will suffer because we rejected some treaty is nonsense. If the no side wins one of two things will happen. Cowen will take the Robert Mugabe route and hold ballot after ballot until they get the result they want like they did with Nice, or they can go back and negotiate a better deal and address the concerns relating to collective bargaining, the loss of a commissioner, neutrality, a common defence policy, etc etc etc.
I will not be bulled by foreign politicians jealous of the Irish corporate tax rate. I’m voting no.
The French and Dutch weren’t cast out into the wilderness when they voted no and neither will we. The economic arguments for a yes vote are hogwash considering Dutch unemployment fell to 2% after the no and FDI into France doubled.
FT, you’re voting No? Really? I’m shocked.
I’d entirely agree with Dan, Tomaltach etc on this. Firstly Kouchner is not a part of the Yes ‘campaign’. Secondly the level of fear-mongering, and I say this as one just barely voting Yes, coming from the No side has to be seen to be believed. FT, your position on this is very very well known at this stage, and entirely sincere, but a lot of it seems to be grounded in assertions and emotive stuff about ‘bullying’ ‘jealousness’ etc. Not very strong grounds IMO. But worth noting that comparing and contrasting the Dutch economy (an embedded gateway into Europe), the French one (arguably the last great statist economy in Europe) and that of Ireland is simply pointless.
Squid said The british and danes have been able to negotiate opt outs, one that can be seen on the ground … and have not suffered. We have negotiated opt outs too - dozens of them! But no-one has rejected an entire Treaty and caused the evolution to halt permantently. Yes the French rejected, but their government later ratified Lisbon.
they can go back and negotiate a better deal and address the concerns relating to collective bargaining, the loss of a commissioner, neutrality, a common defence policy, etc etc etc..
Let’s see that with the gloss:
they can go back and negotiate a better deal and address the concerns relating to collective bargaining(absurd, the treaty is pro-collective bargaining, it’s our government that hasn’t commited to it), the loss of a commissioner (the win in negotiatiosn there where minuscule states like Malta have equal right to a commissioner as Germany was an extraordinary success), neutrality(we have opt outs and can retain our triple lock), a common defence policy(it is repeatedly stated in the treaties that collective action of any kind cannot compromise the neutrality of particular states), etc etc etc.
In short, there is nothing to renegotiate.
Is the French foreign minister NOT a part of the Yes campaign? So he’s probably a part of the No campaigners when speaking to Irishmen, even if he voted Yes in France?! – You really mean it?!
Rarely has one seen as unified an attempt by a country´s politicians joined with shameless interference by powerful foreigners as in this case: Angela Merkel desperately trying to talk you over, using her feminine persuasion, and then Kouchner robustly threatening to make the Irish the “victims” of EC reprisals, or what, in case of a No result!
It will be a witness of a sad state of the once proud Eire if such attempts at manipulating you will be met in this election with a humiliated surrender.