The big question who won the Debate. Miriam or Bertie
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If you ask me, both Enda and Bertie came out neck and neck (50: 50) in tonights debate.
Bertie Ahern was the clear winner of the night and indeed is the best man for the job of Taoiseach for the next five years.
He has exposed key flaws in the Fine Gael/Labour pact:
1. Promise of 2000 more Gardaí - lies, 14000 already provided for
2. Promise of 2300 more hospital beds - at the cost of specialist cancer care etc.
3. Promise of stricter prisons - and yet he objects to a new prison which will do this
4. Promise to stop co-location - why? If we have 1000 private beds in key locations, we can use the current private beds in every hospital as public beds and in it will be done quicker. Not only that, but the argument about public lands is crap - income will be generated from the rents of the lands. And above all - equality ensured - the Government will still have powers to ensure fair and proper treatment in these hospitals.
5. Like it or not, Fine Gael and Labour must accept that they have 5.8 billion spending between them. Its not like Fianna Fáil and any prospective coalition they may have because Fianna Fáil are an individual party going into this election. Fine Gael and Labour as running together in a pact to gain power.
Thats my rant over! I feel better now that I have got all that off my chest. Sorry to the die hard Fine Gael supporters, but its true!
(I can sense some not so nice responses to this post!)
Bertie won because:
A: Lack of detail on which part of the €2.4 of the billion National Development Plan allocated to health would be cut in order to fund the 2,000 more beds (the existing budget is for 500 more beds).
B: Enda’s own Justice Spokesman disagreeing with him over whether crime is rising or falling.
C: Enda admitting that the top 3% will benefit under FG’s tax plans.
Enda came across as amateurish, ill-prepared, and inexperienced. Not up the job!
if he has provided for 14,000 beds he gets my vote
Miriam won. Thank God it wasn’t Mark Little again.
It was fairly close between the two party leaders. Enda was surprisingly impressive, especially in opening statements. He succeeded in raising the issues that people are really concerned about. I thought Bertie wasn’t completely convincing and a bit annoying - quietly belligerent, raising his voice and speaking over Enda repeatedly.
Enda questioned the cost of land for new prison. Bertie denied growth in crime - unconvincingly. He denied crisis in health services - unconvincingly. Co-location would create a two tier health system one fancy new building, and one with the paint peeling off the walls. Enda made good point if private corporations can afford to build them to provide 1000 beds, why can’t the government?
Anyway they both failed to deal with most important issue - the looming energy crisis.
Was everyone watching the same the debate I was, A draw? I was cringing for the leader of FG! Nobody seem to pick up on the whole equal tax thing the leader of the Fine Girl party is all for. So the rich pay the same amount of tax as the poor so where will all the money come from for extra Guards, hospital beds,free child care for under 5s?! Free child care for under 5s and I can see it all already if a kid sneezes they will be brought the doctor ’sure why not is’nt it free’ and the whole country giving out the systme is been abused! Then to put the nail in his coffin he insulted every member of his party with his pathetic excuse that O’Keeffe did’nt have the stats (that’s pretty embarrASSing)and then saying your talking to the leader of the party i.e. my fellow party members no nothing! I would be irate if I was a member FG and he talking down to the memebers of his party. All the contract things were exposed to be just a load of bullsh!t Ahern was’nt the first one to do it either! Was’nt it Fintan O’Toole that published the article a couple of days exposing the bullsh!t that is the ‘contract with the Irish people’!? He mumbled, he fumbled and Ahern just wiped the floor with him!
Edel,
Bertie denying the growth in crime- unconvincing! FG have been exposed as scare mongering when it comes to crime levels. O’Keefe FG spokesperson on JUSTICE!! admitted it and Kenny fumbled when he was questioned and gave that pathetic excuse he did’nt have his stats with him have you ever hear the likes!!? and then on the program afterwards the FG head of elections admitted that he did’nt blame O’Keefe for getting it wrong because he was’nt good at stats either!!? Some braindead stuff! I’ll be minding my assets if them shower of brain dead buffoons get into power! something onto the Crisis in Argentina!!
FT, the government haven’t costed the various aspects of the National Development Plan allocated to health so no one knows how much the government believes the 500 beds will cost and how much the other aspects will cost.
And anyone notice that Bertie talked about 500 beds under the National Development Plan and then 500 beds under the NDP as if they were two separate things. And not 30 secs later he said not to be double counting.
The debate was an embarrassing spectacle. It was like watching two boys in a school yard have a fight. Asked a difficult question? Well no need to answer it, just throw mud at the opposition and hope enough of it sticks so they won’t know you’ve changed the subject.
No wonder we are a nation of apathetic voters. Would you trust either of those men to run your business never mind the country? What I’d like is for someone to treat the voters like we have a brain. Something isn’t achievable in a given time frame? Let’s talk about why that is, let’s talk about what we can do to put ourselves in a position so that we can achieve it in the future. Not promise it outright and then renege later, or word it in a way to try to fool the voters so we believe it’s something that will be achieved. That’s the kind of debate I would like to see, one of new ideas, different priorities not bitching and spinning.
I cringed watching that mess.
Dan Sullivan - And anyone notice that Bertie talked about 500 beds under the National Development Plan and then 500 beds under the NDP as if they were two separate things. And not 30 secs later he said not to be double counting.
You are not the best at picking up on things are you Dan? Both Kenny and Ahern repeated stats last night whilst the other was trying to interrupt. Bertie Ahern merely repeated that there would be 500 beds under the NDP.
I like the way Bertie completely ignored the numbers from the CSO that said that from 2003 to 2006 Murder was up, Rape was up, and Gun crime was up. It was very artfully dodged.
I wasn’t following the whole prison thing but was it true when Enda said that the Government bought the most expensve patch of land in Europe for the prison? If it is true thats a God awful waste of tax payers money.
If I had been Enda I would have climbed off my high horse for just a second to say “It was only resting in my account”. How stupid was Bertie for saying that.
I found it astounding that Bertie said they needed the 1000 beds in a hurry and the only way to get them was through private hospitals. Did he just wake up one morning and say to himself “I need 1000 hospital beds” These things should have been planned and there shouldn’t be a need to rush them.
Both Bertie and McDowell should be ashamed of themselves when they go on Tv and say that we spend more money per person on the Helath service than any other country. They say it like it’s a good thing. The dog on the street knows that the heath service is falling appart and they’re saying it’s alright because we’re spending more money that anyone else on it. Pissing it up a wall is all they’re doing.
I think Bertie may have a slight lead over Enda while on the other hand, Enda was calmer at times.