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New Door step challange: Enda Kenny piss in a cup
Read more about: Fine Gael, Youth
You can sign the petition here.
New Door Step Challange. If Enda Kenny comes to your door in the next few weeks. Say to him. Wait a minute. Go into your kitchen and locate some kind of plastic container. Then come back out to the door and ask him to piss into it. Now I am sure Enda Kenny would be appalled at the idea, that it was an insult to his dignity, that it is disparaging on his character and demeaning. Ask for politicians in the Dail to do the same thing, they would say how can any one think that would happen in the Dai. Even though cocaine has been found in the Dail bar toilets and in a TV sting in Italy 32% of politicians tested positive. Yet Fine Gael want to bring this in for children of the nation. From their manifesto
We will ensure that, where teachers and parents decide to introduce random drug and alcohol testing secondary schools, the Department of Education and Science will cover the costs of such testing.
Now despite this being a front to all morality. It does not work.
Back in February Kenny in the Irish Times said “The system had worked in Britain and the US,”. Really where is the proof?
The largest survey to date on the Issue (which I could find in 5 minutes on Google) was taken by the
Data suggest that drug testing, as practiced in recent years in American secondary schools, does not prevent or inhibit student drug use. The two forms of drug testing that are generally assumed to be most promising for reducing student drug use - random testing applied to all students, and testing of athletes - did not produce encouraging results.
Maybe it is just me but “Does not prevent or inhibit student drug use” seems to suggest that it has failed in the
The obvious answer is that it wouldn’t. Kids have been smoking cigarettes behind the bike shed for years. And been caught for years. But that does not stop them. Teachers know who smokes and who does not and that does not stop kids smoking. Random drug testing works in the Army because people are adults and have something to lose i.e. their jobs also why random breath testing works. Kids on the other hand don’t give a f**k about getting caught. Now Enda insists that this is about stopping peer pressure not catching people. But what does he think is going to happen if a child gets tested positive. That child is probably going to be kicked out of the school. Leading to more disadvantage kids losing out, moving onto harder drugs and causing more of what Fine Gael love best, gang land crime.
But what of the cost of actually administrating this policy (apart from the increased crime rate). In a school in Dublin Ohio. The cost of the program per year in the school was $35,000. Which I would guess is close enough to the salary of a teacher in this country. So basically he is saying that instead of one extra teacher per school, we should have drug testing? Also that school in
Research has shown that the strongest predictor of student drug use is the student attitudes towards drug use and the perceptions of peer use. To prevent harmful student behaviours such as drug use, school policies that address these key values, attitudes , and perceptions may prove more important in drug prevention than drug testing.
Schools are supposed to be a place where children should feel secure, an environment which encourages learning not an environment that treats them like criminals. If you treat them like that then they will only resent that and become what you treat them as. What happens if child refuses to take the test. Will they be expelled, physically forced to take the test? These questions need to be answered.
Remember this is from the party that complains about the governments lack of coherent planning. Has Enda even read the biggest survey on this question or is he running with it because it sounds good? Why does Enda want to implement a policy that the largest study on it says “DID NOT PRODUCE ENCOURAGING RESULTS”, that will cause more crime and will divert teaching resources away from schools. I have absolute no idea.
Because if it is good enough for the youth or Ireland it should be good enough for our politicians.
This is a ridiculous, gimmicky campaign. If parents and schools decide to set up drug testing they obviously feel there is a need for it. Kenny isn’t saying it should be mandatory, just that an FG-led government would support those schools and parents financially in this area.
So drug test school children is need more then other aspects of the education system. What funding you think they should cut to pay for this system. Why should the state fund something that has little evidence of actually working? Also what happens when the kids refuse to take the test? What happens if they fail will the school be informed. Indeed if they fail unless the drug taking place on school grounds what business is it of our education system. Why are they taking over the job of the Gardai and parents i.e. controling them?
You highlight the costs of drugtesting but say that drugtesting kits can be obtained for 13 euros, so there’s a bit of a contradiction in your post.
Kenny has said he will support drug testing when “schools and parents” feel there is a need for it, so its not a case of schools taking over from parents but acting in collaboration with them.
As for your final point about why should schols take over the job of the Gardai and parents in controlling children, part of a school’s function is to control children. Schools have a huge part to play in determining the type of society we live in. There are, after all, countless cases where parents have proven themselves incapable of controlling their children themselves.
You highlight the costs of drugtesting but say that drugtesting kits can be obtained for 13 euros, so there’s a bit of a contradiction in your post.
I am guessing like a drunk driver a doctor has to be present at the time of the test and that means paying for the doctor and the doctor being taken away from dealing with actual sick people.
parents but acting in collaboration with them.
If it drug taking does not take place in schools not the schools obligation. Also what if a parent refuses a school request? I certainly would not give premision
school’s function is to control children.
No it is not the job of a school is to educate not control Control in the class room is part of education. If a kid doss off school who’s job is it to find the kid. the teacher or the Garda. Last time I checked it was the Garda.
countless cases where parents have proven themselves incapable of controlling their children themselves.
So now we are getting the education system to take control of the child welfare system as well. So far you have teachers as gardai, social workers as long with teaching. And as the study that I quoted the largest on the subject it does little to control them anyway. So that point is mute.
“school’s function is to control children.
No it is not the job of a school is to educate not control Control in the class room is part of education. If a kid doss off school who’s job is it to find the kid. the teacher or the Garda. Last time I checked it was the Garda.”
So schools shouldn’t really do sex education, drugs awareness or anything else not strictly academic. Schools instill discipline - that is one of their main functions - and that does not stop once pupils leave the school gates. The fact that teachers are obliged to inform social services if children are constantly absent illustrates this, or is it “not their problem” if the parents don’t ensure their children go to school?
“Also what if a parent refuses a school request? I certainly would not give premision”
I’m pretty sure the principle of consent is enshrined in law so parents would have to agree. This ensures that where it happens it is collaborative, not Fine Gael mandating that drug testing should be compulsory for all pupils, which seems to be the spin you’re trying to put on it.
Schools do have an important part to play in the child welfare system already. What better way to improve a child’s welfare than to ensure they have a good education and to discourage drug use?
Note the word education. These are educational subjects, they involve teaching in a class room. drug tests (I am presuming not blood tests to be nicer to Fine Gael) involve urination
in fact it is not it is their purpose to inform social services that the kid is not in school they don’t hae to violate their privacy . and if the parents are not educating their kids at home and just letting them doss. That is an issue for the social services not teaching staff.
never said that at all.
I have mentioned this a few times and you have not addressed it so in my best Paxman.
Why should the state fund something that the largest study on the subject said that
And Fine Gael talk about value for money spending.
“in fact it is not it is their purpose to inform social services that the kid is not in school they don’t hae to violate their privacy . and if the parents are not educating their kids at home and just letting them doss. That is an issue for the social services not teaching staff.”
Absolute rubbish. The Education (Welfare) Act, 2000 requires schools to maintain a record of the attendance or non-attendance on each school day of each student registered at the school. Truancy officers couldn’t do their jobs if they weren’t informed by schools. This is already the norm.
“Fine Gael mandating that drug testing should be compulsory for all pupils, which seems to be the spin you’re trying to put on it.
never said that at all.”
But you did say: “Yet Fine Gael want to bring this in for children of the nation.” This clearly misrepresents/exaggerates Fine Gael’s position.
“Why should the state fund something that the largest study on the subject said that
“did not produce encouraging results.”
Clearly the US and Ireland are different countries and drug testing alone is not the answer. As part of a larger initiative with community support testing is one option that ought to be at least considered, especially in areas where drug use is rife in schools. I have numerous friends in the teaching profession and I wouldn’t do their job for love nor money considering what they have to put up with today.
Also, ‘did not produce encouraging results’ does not equate to concluding that it will cause more crime and will divert teaching resources away from schools - that is your own prediction based on a speculative assumption about how testing would be carried out in Irish schools.
Truancy officers couldn’t do their jobs if they weren’t informed by schools.
Different point entirely. not going to school and taking drugs outside of school two different things. And this is going of the object of the post. The thinking behind this Fine Gael policy.
Clearly the US and Ireland are different countries
Tell Enda that then. Enda based his argument back in February on “The system had worked in Britain and the US”.
ought to be at least considered,
See Fine Gael or not considering it they are funding it. considering it would involve reading for instance a study of span 94,000 school kids some in schools with drug testing and others without.
does not equate to concluding that it will cause more crime and will divert teaching resources away from schools - that is your own prediction based on a speculative assumption about how testing would be carried out in Irish schools.
And what are you basing the idea that it will work on. At least I have some data to speculate on. What study have you read on the matter by the way.
I have numerous friends in the teaching profession and I wouldn’t do their job for love nor money considering what they have to put up with today.
So you want them to get kids to piss into cups as well? As go though all that.
“Truancy officers couldn’t do their jobs if they weren’t informed by schools.
Different point entirely. not going to school and taking drugs outside of school two different things. And this is going of the object of the post. The thinking behind this Fine Gael policy.”
I was responding to inaccurate claims you made in the comments thread. It’s a bit disingenuous to raise points in the comments thread and then dismiss reaction to them as not relating to the original post.
“does not equate to concluding that it will cause more crime and will divert teaching resources away from schools - that is your own prediction based on a speculative assumption about how testing would be carried out in Irish schools.
And what are you basing the idea that it will work on. At least I have some data to speculate on. What study have you read on the matter by the way.”
The difference is I’m not running an online petition.
Absolute rubbish. The Education (Welfare) Act, 2000 requires schools to maintain a record of the attendance or non-attendance on each school day of each student registered at the school. Truancy officers couldn’t do their jobs if they weren’t informed by schools. This is already the norm.
the comparrison to drugs with that is kids caught doing drugs on school grounds by staff informing the relevant authorities. totally different to drug testing.
The difference is I’m not running an online petition.
What that people with petitions are the only ones that need to back up their positions come on . You still haven’t addressed the points I raised.