Young Fine Gael: Fiddling With Knobs and Boobs for Lisbon
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Just out of interest, did the adults ever clear all the Freedom Instituters (an organisation which shares much membership with Libertas) out of YFG, or are they still in place?
If not Enda can just go in and slap his cock about.
Disturbing
Are you not hard for Europe Simon?
EWI, do you think the atrocious campaign can only be explained by Lisbon No moles within YFG? It’s a good theory.
EWI, do you think the atrocious campaign can only be explained by Lisbon No moles within YFG? It’s a good theory.
I think that if anyone within YFG (or the grown-ups, for that matter) wanted to investigate this topic, they might do worse than to take note of the numbers of YFG members who moonlighted as FI ’spokespersons’ and ‘directors’ - lists still extant through the wonders of the Wayback Machine (copy-and-paste the below):
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://freedominst.org
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.thefi.org
The rest of the FI were made up of ‘independents’ (i.e. right-wing immigrants and West Brits) and McDowell Youth members. I recall a claim made by themselves that they had Ógra Fianna Fáil and Green Party members - perhaps this was simply good ol’ John McGuirk, who has certtainly displayed a polygamous attitude to party affiliations over the years?
To the best of my knowledge, there are only four members of Libertas: Declan Ganley, Naoise Nunn, David Cochrane and John McGuirk - the last three being apparently paid employees of the organisation.
As such, the talk of an overlap between the FI, YFG and Libertas is a bit ott.
I’m going to deal with this post in two separate sections, for reasons which I will explain.
To the best of my knowledge, there are only four members of Libertas: Declan Ganley, Naoise Nunn, David Cochrane and John McGuirk - the last three being apparently paid employees of the organisation.
Here we need to come to a definition of what ‘member’ is. I presume that you’ve been paying attention on P.ie and to the news - would you consider Michael McDowell and Constantin Gurdgiev to be “members”? They’ve certainly been associated with Libertas. And I’ve seen a certain ex-FI member praising Libertas in the Daily Mail - admiration which has been returned, with said article being quoted on Libertas’ blog.
I don’t believe (I welcome correction, if needed) that four is the total number even on the employee front. Libertas maintain several different blogs, and there’s no indication that the same person is writing them all (also, McGuirk was in the curious position of being employed not buy Libertas but by their PR firm until recently. An investigation of Libertas’ funding by Phoenix is well overdue…)
As such, the talk of an overlap between the FI, YFG and Libertas is a bit ott.
Who has talked of a shared membership between the FI, YFG and Libertas? You’re the one who’s raised this strawman. The most that has been noted here is (i) that there are *quite* a number of YFG members who were once members of the Freedom Institute - an organisation which shared the FI’s right-wing, Anglophile, anti-EU free-market, and (ii) several of the names one most commonly associates with the FI are now in or around Libertas.
I believe McDowell had a professional relationship with Declan Ganley and Libertas. I don’t believe that he has anything to do with them on a personal political basis, and I would be seriously surpised if he did.
With regard to other supporters of Libertas, I though Constain had left. Maybe he hasn’t, but I thought he was involved before Xmass, but not anymore. I’m not aware of anyother members of Libertas, and haven’t any particular reason to believe there are more than another five or six - and thats based on those who have signed its charter. Maybe Richard Waghorne has something to do with them, I don’t know.
By the way, where are these other Libertas blogs? I cannot say that I’m aware of them, and I’d be one of the people more interested in Libertas.
With regard to this quite a number of YFGers involved in the FI, there was a handful, mainly at an early stage of that organisations history. With regard to point I, if I read you correctly your suggesting that YFG were like the FI anti-EU? YFG has never been anything - at least over the past deacde - but staunchly pro-European Union.
Took out double post John if you meant it let me know and i will put it back up.
Don’t you think it might possibly be…. funny?
And that you guys might benefit from loosening up a little?
I’ve put it up as my Facebook profile picture- because it’s funny, and despite my political views being not FG.
A
I believe McDowell had a professional relationship with Declan Ganley and Libertas. I don’t believe that he has anything to do with them on a personal political basis, and I would be seriously surpised if he did.
I believe from media reports (I will guess that you do too) that McDowell’s involvement is - at least to outsiders - less platonic than described so drily above.
By the way, where are these other Libertas blogs? I cannot say that I’m aware of them, and I’d be one of the people more interested in Libertas.
I count three:
The main Libertas blog: http://www.libertas.org/
Constitutionwatch blog: http://www.constitutionwatch.eu/
Libertas energy blog: http://www.libertasenergy.eu/blog/
And you’re welcome.
With regard to this quite a number of YFGers involved in the FI, there was a handful, mainly at an early stage of that organisations history.
As recently as 2006 the following were listed on the FI site:
Will Cheung, ‘Infrastructure spokesperson’
“Mr. Cheung works in the financial services industry. He previously served as the Dublin Regional Chairperson of the largest youth wing of a political party in the State. His economics studies in University College Dublin perfectly complement his involvement in the Economics & Infrastructure Portfolio. He was also involved in the Campaign to Re-Introduce Coca Cola during his student days.”
Garreth Robinson, ‘Justice spokesperson’
“Gareth is a graduate in history from Trinity College, Dublin, where he specialised in US politics. He is currently qualifying as a barrister in the Kings Inns, where he is in his second and final year and is also the auditor of the Law Students Debating Society of Ireland (LSDSI).”
Georgina Robinson, ‘Justice spokesperson’
“Georgina is a graduate in history and politics from U.C.D., where she served in a variety of different positions on a national youth wing of a major political party at regional and national level. She is now a postgraduate law student. She is an outspoken critic of the Equality Authority and has consistently opposed gender quotas and all other forms of affirmative action.”
Jack Tchrackian, ‘Senior Justice Spkesperson’
“Jack is a law graduate from Trinity Colege, Dublin and currently works in Dublin as a trainee solicitor with a respected commercial firm. He has also served in a variety of senior positions with a major political party. Jack is a great believer in the rule of law and the separation of powers and has been a consistent critic of lenient criminal justice policy and judicial activism.”
I could go on. Now, I’m not a YFG-er (so I don’t know you all), and this was just from the public listing of the FI’s senior representatives, but it seems to me that some of YFG’s leading lights appear to have been more involved in the FI than is healthy for a supposedly pro-European youth wing. What say you?
As recently as 2006 the following were listed on the FI site:
And of course, Mr. John McGuirk himself as well. In my defence, it’s hard to keep up with his changing party status - he’s looking to challenge both the Cruiser and Harris in terms of political bed-hopping, it appears.
Out of an organisation with about 4,000 members - with a fairly significant turnover each year - four or five people are a handful. There about a dozen people on the National Exec, about twenty or thirty on the regional councils and about ten on each college committee. These change every year.
YFG has been strongly pro-European as long as I have been in it, with no significant critique of that policy emerging on a sustained basis. You may try all you like to pretend that there is something to do with YFG, the FI and Libertas, but is is rubbish. A few genuine YFGers were involved (maybe about as many as a dozez) , as I said, mainly at the fringe, when the organisation set up and held some initially meetings- when I don’t believe they had much of a Eurosceptic messages, and the YFGers were attracted by their economic message.
With regard to your comments about “the FI senior representatives”, as far as I remember it wasn’t that difficult to become one of them.
As such trying to link the organisations is a tad disingenuous.
As such trying to link the organisations is a tad disingenuous.
I was going to find some better things to do with my time than continue this… debate, over whether or not senior YFG members being heavily involved in the virulently anti-EU Freedom Institute was… well senior YFG members being heavily involved in the virulently anti-EU Freedom Institute.
But one matter I do want to dispute is the labeling of myself as “disingenuous”. If anything I have been restrained, confining myself to persons who are going to have one hell of a time proving that they weren’t FI members(!).
For one thing, I have deliberately not mentioned the names of those who were members of the FI’s private forum (in typical FI incompetence, they walled off their forums from non-believers, but neglected to do the same for the names of those who were, shall we say, think with them) .
For another, I haven’t asked one particular question of yourself for which I believe I’ve had growing cause as the thread went on. Can you guess what it is?
(in typical FI incompetence, they walled off their forums from non-believers, but neglected to do the same for the names of those who were, shall we say, thick with them) .
Thick, not think, of course. Not a lot of that thinking business went on over at FI Towers from the evidence.
With regard to myself, I was briefly involved at a very low level - I hardly deny that considering I wrote a (not particularly good, admittedly) blog entry for them on the issue of EU. But considering, what you thought you knew, surely that would mean I would be able to talk with some level of knowledge as to what YFG people were involved in the the FI?