Fine Gael Private Members Debate to Support Motion of Confidence in Mahon Tribunal

Begins at 7:00 over on Oireachtas live. Full motions are available here (PDF) Edit: Willy O Dea suggests that Fine Gael and Enda Kenny are familiar with or responsible for the tribunal leaks.

Motion: “That Dáil Éireann reaffirms its confidence in the Mahon Tribunal, and its belief that the Tribunal is acting independently, without bias and within the remit contained in the terms of reference set by the Oireachtas.”

Fianna Fail amendment:

To delete all words after “Dáil Éireann” and substitute the following:
“—
affirms its confidence in the Mahon Tribunal and believes it will fulfil the Tribunal’s
mandate pursuant to the amended Terms of Reference established by the Oireachtas;
—
notes that the Tribunal was established to inquire urgently into Certain Planning
Matters and report to the Clerk of the Dáil and make such findings and
recommendations as it sees fit;
—
notes the rulings of the Supreme Court in relation to the Tribunal of Inquiry’s Terms
of Reference;
—
notes the projected cost of this Tribunal of Inquiry, urges the Tribunal to continue its
work and looks forward to receiving the report of the Tribunal expeditiously, in order
that the Dáil may debate and deliberate on its findings;
—
urges the early consideration and enactment by the Oireachtas of the Tribunals of
Inquiry Bill 2005 to underpin the confidence of the public and the Oireachtas in any
future Tribunals and to address matters of procedure and practice in the conduct of
any such Tribunals;
—
welcomes the opportunity to discuss the procedures and practices involved in
investigating matters mandated by Oireachtas Éireann; and
—
condemns the leaking of Tribunal documents as a breach of confidentiality as
established by law, and an infringement on the rights of those affected, and supports
appropriate actions to investigate such leaks, and further reaffirms the right to
confidentiality to which each citizen is entitled in their correspondence with the
Tribunal.” — An tAire Comhshaoil, Oidhreachta agus Rialtais Áitiúil.

Liveblogging it below:

Enda Kenny opens debate:

Fianna Fail ministers “queued up to go on the airwaves to attack the tribunal” and in doing so were putting party interest before the national interest. Kenny proceeds to read the Mahon justification (first section of the PDF) given following this into the record of the Dail.

The government has put together a cobbled together amendment to hold together a rag-bag, tired government. The government motion is a clear defeat for the absent PDs and absent Greens who could have not problem with the Fine Gael motion and have let themselves be bullied by Fianna Fail Ministers. The PDs and Greens have rolled over once again to protect spaces on fine leather seats.

Does the Taoiseach consider ministers accusing the tribunal of bias as “allowing them to get on with their work”, suggests Bertie has actively encouraged this performance by his ministers. After six days of hearings Bertie complained that he is being victimised, Kenny suggests that like Burke and others the tribunal is following the money trail and reminds Bertie that he supported this method himself.

In only one case of witnesses (over 600 in all) have we seen Fianna Fail up in arms about the conduct of the tribunal.

For Cowen, political loyalty is paramount more important than loyalty to hte state and more important than the credibility of office of an Taoiseach. Truth is Ministers are more interested in protecting their careers and their place in government. We now see a new disdain for the house, no legislation no correction of statements, no legislation. Not talking about issues such as health, crime or a situation where people are losing confidence in government to sort out their problems. So they have to use valuable house time because Mr Ahern has not given sufficient answers to the tribunal.

The root cause of all this energy and cost is that the truth is not coming out. The motion deals with three aspects of independent, acting without bias and fulfilling its terms of reference-government’s is a cobbled together motion.

Fergus O Dowd:

Long lament on the missing ministers “are the greens preparing the tent in Ballybrit?”.

Mahon has been inquiring into corruption, political and planning corruption. Fianna Fail are bound up with this problem and now the Green party are holding the tent pegs in Ballybrit. The Greens have been bought very cheaply and long ago railed against FF’s low standards in high places.

I take no satisfaction in saying this, I always thought they were a force for good. They evolved into an efficient political party and all sides thought they would make a good party in government and then the last eight months show defeat and roll-over politics. John Gormley owes his presence in the Dail to Lucinda Creighton.

Lengthy cutting of Green Party. Greens have sold out on principles, puts it to 16 missing ministers that the government of this country is not acceptable. It is not acceptable that a leader of the country should treat the tribunal like this.

Leo Varadker:

Corruption is not a victimless crime-people in my constituency spend two hours in traffic to get to work thanks to members of Fianna Fail a practice overseen by Bertie Ahern.

Tribunal has uncovered a money trail around unusual lodgements in the Taoiseach’s account and he could not explain them in either private or public session. Quote’s Bertie on the money trail “its the way to follow this type of inquiry”.

The only reason why the ministers opposite are attacking is that it is getting close to the truth-shining a light in dark corners of Irish politics. Minister after minister in a campaign orchestrated by the government press secretary are come out to accuse the tribunal of “prurient questions etc.”

No one has betrayed the public trust more than the Taoiseach, a far cry from the Fianna fail ethos.

Cowen has only said he was motivated by loyalty-Bertie is the same he was Haughey’s protege, bag-man and signed his blank cheques. They are the same-too afraid to stand up for what is right. Minister for Justice has nothing to say about the injustices that have unfurled in this investigation, Minister Hanafin who sees nothing wrong with money changing hands in dark rooms.

Like all members I share concern about the tribunal-its cost, its time taken. the reality is that costs escalate due to non-cooperation by some of the members opposite and the failure by government to cap legal fees. Irish politics still has the same cute-hoorism and clientelism. Wants to move on from Haughey-Lawlor-Ahern era of politics.

All that is needed for corruption to triumph and the truth to be hidden is for the Tainiste to do nothing.

Minister John Gormley :

Moves government motion as clear and unambiguous expressing support in the mahon tribunal. I have always pointed out my support of the tribunal.

Opposition is trying to cast shadow on the running of tribunal. The government fully supports the tribunal and looks forward to its report which hopefully will be substantive and weighty.

The government has always supported the tribunal in money, timetables, staffing over the years and the house should bear this in mind. The tribunal was enacted in 1997 in response to the corrupt planning practices such as those in Dublin. It was mandated to look at activities and follow other items that may seem corrupt. Its terms were further expanded to investigate any allegation of corruption associated with planning. Government made additional provision for more judges upon the request of Mister justice Flood.

Interruption Richard Bruton-why don’t you accept that it works without bias?

The tribunal’s public hearings have extended on and on and on due to legal challenges and government has at all times been supportive of the demands and requests from the tribunal on time, costs etc.

Significant development in the regulatory framework which reinforces confidence on the conduct of those in public office; lists legislation.

It is evident that successive governments have made efforts to support the tribunal and increase ethics and probity throughout the public service. Of course there are concerns about costs and duration especially in the planning tribunal. However it nears a close. Total cost is not expected to exceed E300 million by Judge Mahon.

We have confidence that it has done and continues to do its duty properly, effectively and it has discharged its responsibility within this context. We would do well to learn the lessons from the tribunals and this tribunal.

I am aware that the Tribunals bill currently in the Dail is seen by opposition as to be used to shut down the Mahon tribunal but it is not the case as Brian Lenihan has stated in the Dail. I might add that this bill only makes explicit the implicit power of a dail to dissolve the tribunal and it follows from the report of the law reform commission.

Good planning is not an option but a necessity in the proper running of the country. **There is almost constant heckling that his speech is avoiding the issue the opposition is raising**

The Green party has higher ethical standards than Fine Gael, we have never accepted a penny from a bank or a builder and you need to withdraw your stupid remarks made tonight. (Can overhear “biggest pile of crap in the background”)

Willy O Dea:

Tribunal has all the components necessary to discharge the tasks the government set it. They are now nearing a point where they can conclude and report to the Dail. It was established with urgency and it has been alleged by some that we are to accept some extraordinary things emanating from the tribunal. I find it hard to accept that we should believe the tribunal’s action is urgent.

Fortunately the government has not sat back and made significant reforms to help the tribunal achieve their aims. Yet when members of this house dare to voice concern that it is varying outside of its remit we are accused of intimidating and undermining the tribunal. To suggest it has made mistakes is not to intimidate it. Was justice Denham intimidating the tribunal in judging that “the tribunal is anything but an urgent public inquiry”. Is Justice Hardiman doing the same in his judgement that the tribunal is “extraordinarily unfair” and that it has pre-judge some vital issues and “repressed” some vital material. Criticism of the courts is pemissible and to be welcomed.

It is rare that I find myself agreeing with Vincent Browne when he wrote that “the point of the motion is to attempt to embarrass Fianna Fail”. Their support for tonight’s motion is a sham. Nothing we have done in the last months has hindered the work of the tribunal but to raise questions about specific areas such as costs, leaking, the nature of some question. There is a sense that the tribunal is following a prosecutorial path rather than an investigative one. It is a departure from the workings seen in the earlier stages of the tribunal.

Despite his many hours of testimony, the Taoiseach is yet to be asked “did he receive cash from Owen O Callaghan”.

Another concern is leaks and leaking of material from members of the main opposition party in an attempt to further their agenda has done more damage than anything done on this side of the house. No matter how important the work of hte tribunal is it cannot be done if it jeapordises the right of a citizen to be treated fairly and the statements from Fine Gael have deteriorated into negative and nasty invective. They are part of a concerted and coordinated effort fronted by the leader of the opposition.

Quotes Enda Kenny back to himself “having no interest in the Taoiseachs private affairs”. Alleges that Enda Kenny met with an editor of a national newspaper before the election (one for which Willy writes) and suggested that the story they were breaking the following day was “going to be huge” insinuating that he was responsible or aware of the leaking of information.
The Dail has given the tribunal a job to do and should put an end now to the political posturing that takes place across the way.

Eamon Gilmore:

For all their concern for fees, the government was the one who set the tribunal’s fees. It is cant and hypocrisy for them to start bellyaching when they themselves set the legal fees. This government has been responsible for this tribunal for its entire tenure. After an entire ten years, many witnesses have appeared and many legal challenges were made and it is only when their own Taoiseach is before hte tribunal “getting deeper and deeper into the hole” that they get concerned.

The government are attempting an attack on teh tribunal to take away public confidence from what it is doing and its importance. This is a political act with Bertie Ahern at its centre. I find it unacceptable that the finances of one man should paralyse politics in this country. I am sick of the twists, turns, half-truths and untruths, crocodile tears and outrage. Yet I cannot ignore it, or the fact that he cannot produce a tax certificate.

We cannot ignore the fact that PDs and Greens in government have abandoned their position and like the three monkeys see, hear and speak no evil. minster gormley gave a most pathetic speech that I have heard in a long time. Instead of giving a speech he read out an explanatory memorandum to a bill. There is a yellow tinge around the greens and it is pathetic to see a minister come in and be walked on, then cut and run following his speech.

The controversy is of the Taoiseach’s own making. We are here because of his and his minister’s actions. We wouldn’t be here if he did fully cooperate with the tribunal.

Press and radio had the situation where government press secretaries rang them up and offered ministers for the knocking down of the tribunal. When minsters found Bertie floundering they no longer saw fit to leave the tribunal to its job, it was classic case of defence turning into attack. The cracks that have emerged in the Taoiseach’s account is undermining his authority to govern.

Mr Ahern has offered an explanation, dig-outs, Manchester and Mick Wall and the tribunal is having difficulty believing this. He is not being treated differently. The reason the house gave the invasive job to the tribunal is that no one could crack the problem of corruption in the planning process.

No one would have cracked hte issue of public corruption were it not for the tribunal’s powers and these are the powers that the Taoiseach is giving out about. He cannot explain adequately and that is why the tribunal is following up on him. The fact is he has not come up with a credible explanation for the sums that he has gotten while Minister for Finance and his current issues with his tax affairs and it is hard to avoid the conclusion that he misled the house in September 2006.

A request to revenue to be treated as having made a voluntary disclosure is a worrying fact, normal tax-payers do not ask for that treatment from revenue. How can he be seeking in 2006 to be making a voluntary disclosure while applying in 2002 for a tax clearance certificate.